USSoccer

Seconded. Retaining Aramis is far more important than who our manager winds up being. So hypothetically if ARam says "I want Lou Piniella as manager" you would be in favor of the Cubs hiring Lou Piniella solely to satisfy ARam? Players matter more than the manager, so I'd do it. I'd rather have ARam with Piniella than David Bell with Larry Dierker. Again, another hypothetical. If towards the end of this year, Hendry approached ARam and said "what do I have to do to get you to stay a Cub?" and ARam said "resign Dusty" you would be in favor? If ARam demands Piniella, he can walk. If he told me to resign Dusty I'd counter with something else, but thankfully this hypothetical is just that. I could also make the argument that Hendry is far more responsible for our current state than Baker is.

If you think Lee is better or more valuable than ARod, you're crazy. ARod is a top 5 player in the game, if not the best player in the game.

I don't know that the details regarding the opt out clause were ever made public.

I disagree. A hitter will play in 140-160 games. A pitcher will impact about 35. You go with the hitter. As far as our rotation goes, keep in mind Mark Prior will likely be back and closer to his previous form than he was this year. Zambrano, Prior and Hill in no particular order is pretty decent. Finding 2 more starters shouldn't be that hard.

I agree, I was just quoting your quote of him so I wouldn't have to go back a page. Gotcha. So we're on the same page. :D

Seconded. Retaining Aramis is far more important than who our manager winds up being. So hypothetically if ARam says "I want Lou Piniella as manager" you would be in favor of the Cubs hiring Lou Piniella solely to satisfy ARam? Players matter more than the manager, so I'd do it. I'd rather have ARam with Piniella than David Bell with Larry Dierker.

Yepper. Hendry can overspend by millions on guys like Alfonseca, Rusch and Perez, he can overspend a couple million on somebody who will actually help the team. Can he? He's never proven that to be the case... Well, I'm saying I'll allow it, not that he's mentally capable. :D Understood :D Let's hope he hits his head and realizes he can and should.

What does it matter what Lee is getting? Ramirez has been more productive than Lee for most of the time the two have been here. Not to mention he's younger.

Yepper. Hendry can overspend by millions on guys like Alfonseca, Rusch and Perez, he can overspend a couple million on somebody who will actually help the team. Can he? He's never proven that to be the case...

We have enough money to improve both offensively and defensively, and to your point there aren't the pitchers out there to become an elite staff only. The best course of action would be to become better in both areas, and make sure you are balanced. Resigning Ramirez, signing Soriano and exploring a trade for a better CF or RF isone way to make your offense better. Pitchingwise, Zito and Schmidt aren't the end all, be all, but you can still get one of them, and combined with the above offense moves improve dramatically without busting the budget. Who said elite? The Cubs should be a top 5 run scoring team and top 5 run preventing team in the NL every year. It's not smart to try and just build around pitching. If your pitching falters, you are screwed. Pitching is less reliable anyway. Great pitchers go down or disappoint with far more regularity than great hitters. Improve the offense, improve the pitching. Try to avoid pathetic defenders, but don't focus on improving the defense. I agree. I was responding to the previous poster who said we didn't have enough money to be an elite offense, implying that we can become an elite pitching staff instead using money in the FA market. There's no excuse to ignore offense for the sake of pitching. You need both to win.

As Goony said in the gamethread, the right scenario could easily result in an ARod trade, at which time we'd be stupid not to get involved. I'm not sure what it would take to get him. The Yankees might make us take Jared Wright or Carl Pavano in return, though, and we'd almost certainly have to give up some really valuable players. Off the top of my head, if we didn't take anyone back other than ARod, I'd think it would be something like Prior, Pie, Marshall and Izturis or Moore.

That's a terrible idea. Neglecting the offense is exactly why this team has struggled so much. We don't have the money to put together an elite offense. OBP and SLG have become expensive. There are other ways to win...e.g. the 2006 Oakland A's. Pitching and defense really do matter. We have enough money to improve both offensively and defensively, and to your point there aren't the pitchers out there to become an elite staff only. The best course of action would be to become better in both areas, and make sure you are balanced. Resigning Ramirez, signing Soriano and exploring a trade for a better CF or RF isone way to make your offense better. Pitchingwise, Zito and Schmidt aren't the end all, be all, but you can still get one of them, and combined with the above offense moves improve dramatically without busting the budget.

Seconded. Retaining Aramis is far more important than who our manager winds up being. That kind of treatment is reserve to players who are either the Face of the franchise (Derrek Lee) or the Franchise (Carlos Zambrano) players, and quite frankly, as much as I like ARam, he hasn't earn the right to have a say in the Cubs managerial search. Had he help carried the Cubs when Lee went down, he would have a say, but since he didn't show up to pretty much the 2nd half, he doesn't get that right. And if that means ARam leaves, then fine, I'm used to disappointment. To be fair, I'm not sure how Lee deserves input but Aramis doesn't. Aramis has been here longer (albiet a couple months longer), is younger, and Aramis actually did carry the team and put up great numbers while the rest of his teammates (including Lee) were scuffling in September of 2004. Lee had a great 2005, but it was for a 4th place team. Both should have about the same level of treatment and input.

While that may be true at the professional level, as a coach it kills me to read a statement like that. That's funny, because I know quite a few football coaches who always talk about wanting the talented kid as opposed to the hustling grinder type. It's obligatory to praise the hustling grinder, but I think a lot of coaches would love the opportunity to coach a phenomenal talent, even if he has some hustle issues. And as bad as some want to paint the picture, Aramis isn't that bad in this department. It's not like he never walks, or never dives for balls and never hustles. He flakes from time to time, but not to the extent of Manny. Baseball isn't a balls out sport, you have to be calm and collected. No doubt, every coach wants the D1 stud on their high school team. But you have to set the standard for high school kids, and the kids with that type of talent we've had couldn't stick on the team because of attitude. That hurt us in the short run, but the culture we've established is changing the tone of the program and most importantly, is leading to the development of some fine young men. Which is really terrific at the level you're at, but as you said yourself, I don't think it holds true in the pro ranks. Your one goal is to win. If Boston offered me Manny Ramirez and the only way we could get him is if we put a clause in his contract that stated he could walk out ground balls and pop flys, I'd still probably take him. As far as Aramis wanting to wait to see who the manager is, I'm sure that that's nothing to do with him worrying about getting yelled at for hustle. I'm sure it's more to do with seeing the direction of the team.

While that may be true at the professional level, as a coach it kills me to read a statement like that. That's funny, because I know quite a few football coaches who always talk about wanting the talented kid as opposed to the hustling grinder type. It's obligatory to praise the hustling grinder, but I think a lot of coaches would love the opportunity to coach a phenomenal talent, even if he has some hustle issues. And as bad as some want to paint the picture, Aramis isn't that bad in this department. It's not like he never walks, or never dives for balls and never hustles. He flakes from time to time, but not to the extent of Manny. Baseball isn't a balls out sport, you have to be calm and collected. Excellently put, good sir.

I think you are 10000% correct, and I think it's starting to play out in just that way.

Someone asked this earlier, but was O'Neal let go as well? Because he really should be...

She did. I was just going to write that... I wonder how much that divorce has affected his job performance. Didn't she leave him after the 2004 season?

I have serious reservations about what Hendry is going to do as far as finding a manager. He didn't sound like a man who had a plan on Monday, and I just don't think that's a good sign. This offseason is way too important not to have had a plan in place for how to proceed.

That's one of the more insulting things to be directed at me on this site in a long time. As someone who does lead people day in and day out, I'm aware of what leadership is, and it is something that's earned. It just doesn't happen because you attempt to assert leadership-type qualities. I explictly stated that "leaders just are." How you get that leadership can simply be asserted out of that is amazing.

That's one of the more insulting things to be directed at me on this site in a long time. As someone who does lead people day in and day out, I'm aware of what leadership is, and it is something that's earned. It just doesn't happen because you attempt to assert leadership-type qualities.

Well, that's what you're going to see b/c the people doing the hiring subscribe to that baseball philosophy. No Dierker. Maybe a Francona, but he's seemingly not available anymore. Girardi is a guy that leads by example. Personally, I've always prefered that type. Guys like Girardi are leaders. Guys like Baker are managers. We need his fire and discipline in this clubhouse. A fat lefty setup man who complains about the fans needs to get his priorities straight. Winning is what matters, not keeping the media, fans, or the Front Office happy. Girardi made that clear in Florida. Are we really back to the "fire and discipline" argument? Those are not the 2 traits that kept us from winning this season. Those are not traits than really ever make a difference between a winning team and a losing team. Those are not important traits in a manager of a baseball team. Yeah, we do need discipline, but that wasn't the main part of my post. "Girardi is a guy that leads by example. Personally, I've always prefered that type. Guys like Girardi are leaders. Guys like Baker are managers." We need discipline less than we need better players. Much less. Furthermore, Baker is a bad manager. His bad managing has nothing to do with leadership. I have no idea what kind of manager Girardi is, but leadership is something you earn over time. No manager is going to walk into a situation and be considered a leader. It's impossible to say whether or not Girardi would accomplish this better than anyone else. Finally, how is Girardi going to lead this team by example? He wasn't a very good baseball player; is he going to show his players how to take pitches?

Judging his managing skills on just one year of managing with the Marlins isn't that great an idea either. You're probably not going to get a complete picture. It's better than basing your call on the fact that he went to NU 20 years ago, and was a pretty below average Cub for 7 seasons. If you're hiring him to be a bench coach, whatever. If he's your manager, you judge him on his management experience, no matter how short it may be. You don't judge him just based on his management experience. And his solid education might be nice addition, but yes, you can't determine whether he'll be a good manager or not based on that either. I'd say his management experience should be heavily weighted. It's direct experience. It's more relevant than any other factor.

Piniella: Manager Girardi: Bench Coach McLendon: Pitching Coach Hugh Douglas: Hitting Coach Mike Ditka: Bullpen Coach World Series, here we come!

Well, that's what you're going to see b/c the people doing the hiring subscribe to that baseball philosophy. No Dierker. Maybe a Francona, but he's seemingly not available anymore. Girardi is a guy that leads by example. Personally, I've always prefered that type. Guys like Girardi are leaders. Guys like Baker are managers. We need his fire and discipline in this clubhouse. A fat lefty setup man who complains about the fans needs to get his priorities straight. Winning is what matters, not keeping the media, fans, or the Front Office happy. Girardi made that clear in Florida. Are we really back to the "fire and discipline" argument? Those are not the 2 traits that kept us from winning this season. Those are not traits than really ever make a difference between a winning team and a losing team. Those are not important traits in a manager of a baseball team.