USSoccer

Jesus, Taj was fouled twice there with no call.

Butler is really, really playing great.

If the Bulls want to entertain any idea of making this series competitive, this is the game they need to steal.

kind of a dirty play there

I was one of the few here who loved the Noah pick but I never saw this coming. I thought he'd just be an energy guy. Give you rebounding but would never score in double digits often. I was dead wrong. Just immense improvement and development to go with all that energy. They had their 4th string point guard playing big minutes tonight. Cook and Teague and Nazr all came in and outplayed the BKN second unit. BKN never led.

Apropos of nothing, Brook Lopez looks like a fricking Frankenstein.

I don't think there's a "may" about it.

Joakim Noah. Holy [expletive]. I'm not sure if anyone thought he was going to be this good when he was drafted. Holy [expletive]. What a fantastic game. Brooklyn didn't deserve [expletive].

Aside from the fact that my second quote doesn't contradict the first in this example, you're right. Good point. My second quote there has to do with players being asked their opinions on things. Not guys making statements like Rose was trying to do. If Rose and his team decided to have him speak, he delivered his message pretty poorly. The whole thing was tone deaf.

Derrick Rose is an amazingly naive idiot or has the absolute worst management team in the history of PR

What does "balls out" include? I think playing in pickup games varies wildly from ratcheting it up in the playoffs 40 minutes every other night, especially against defenses that are going to up the physicality. I think it's a lot more likely that while he could play, and probably do reasonably well, it's better for both sides to sit him rather than run him out there for a playoff run they know will end against Miami. He could be playing 20 minutes a night and make a major difference.

I don't have any sort of attachment to Rose, but this is preposterous. Maybe he doesn't want to push a knee that was operated on 51 weeks ago just to lose in five games to the Heat? He was cleared to play 10 weeks ago. Typical recovery time frame is 8-10 months. And if he didn't want to push it, he shouldn't be going balls out at the Berto Center and kicking everyone's ass in 5v5 and 1v1.

It doesn't need to be said. It's clear as day. It's his teammates that deserve respect. Not Rose. It doesn't need to be said, but just in case, that's about all you've said for 3+ pages of this thread. Is that an issue?

It doesn't need to be said. It's clear as day. It's his teammates that deserve respect. Not Rose.

Can you imagine what this thread would look like if Deng had played after getting a spinal tap? The same as it looks now?

Iman Shumpert has been terrible compared to the way he was pre-injury. With the exception of 3pt shooting, every stat is down from pre-injury. Rose is taking longer, yes. But the point is for him to be able to come back and not have to be a shadow of the player he was pre-injury. Will that actually happen? There's no telling of course, but if him taking a little longer to get right...what's being hurt by that? Maybe the Bulls are out of the playoffs a round earlier than they would have otherwise? You're getting back to ridiculousness here. Comparing Rose's ACL to Nate Robinson's flu symptoms? Yep, that's the same. None of the guys you listed are dealing with an injury of the severity that Rose's was. And frankly, I'd rather that Deng had sat, maybe gotten surgery to get his wrist right. I'd rather that Noah had sat for longer and not tried to play through his plantar fascitis, so we could have gotten more of 100% Noah instead of some of the gimpy games we've gotten. Playing through injury isn't always the right move. I will agree with you that the PR aspect of all of this should've been handled better. Reggie, of course, should shut the [expletive] up. And both Rose and the Bulls should've allowed more for the possibility that he misses the season right from the start. But the vilification is way WAY over the top. Rose didn't kill anyone, or rape anyone, or wreck his sportscar on Lakeshore, or whatever other endless amount of stupidity that athletes are forgiven for. The only difference is that he hasn't been back on the court yet, to do all those great things that make people forgive athletes. As soon he does, all this will be forgotten. I'm not saying it won't be forgiven or forgotten. Of course it will. Fanbases have short memories for great players. But let's not pretend for a second that this is okay, because it isn't. The point of listing all his current teammates that are "playing at shadows of the players they typically are" is to draw a contrast. Rose isn't still injured. His ACL didn't tear 6 months ago. It will have been a year on 5/12. He's healthy. He no longer has a severe injury. Like I said, his teammates with actual, existing ailments and injuries are the ones that deserve respect, because they're actually playing and trying. He could have come back when he was ready in mid March or early April, and gotten the rust off that way. He could be playing 15-20 minutes off the bench to help his team right now. All he's succeeded in doing is putting off his period of adjustment to next season. It's self serving. For you to state that Rose shouldn't be ripped for holding the team hostage to his idiotic standard of recovery is crazyballs. He's not being vilified. Jay Cutler was vilified (actually hurt). Prior and Wood were/are vilified (hurt and hurt). Aramis Ramirez was vilified (stupidly). Sammy Sosa was vilified (stupidly). Derrick Rose has been treated with kid gloves.

Our idiot media slayed Mark Prior and Kerry Wood for years.

You're just assuming so much though. Who says he made up his mind not to play? Maybe he didn't. You don't know, I don't know. Your rage and indignation at the whole thing is just so funny. He's a 24yo superstar that wants to take the time to make sure his injury is fully healed, and that he is back at the playing level he wants to be at. I'm perfectly ok with that, and if anything, I respect him more for not caring what fans, talk radio, or columnists think he should be doing. He's doing what's right for him. Yes, what they say in public and what they think may be very different, but you're presuming to know what he's thinking. And of course the Jordan comparison was ridiculous, like I said it was. But the Rose discussion in this thread has been far from level headed, so I thought I'd throw out a bit of hyperbole too. That bolded part is completely irrelevant in terms of how the fanbase should feel. The organization's hands are tied because he's a star and you have to kiss ass to keep stars in the NBA, but the fact that he's a superstar doesn't entitle him to arbitrary timelines for an injury recovery. And if he wants to take that time, fine. Just shut it down and make it publicly clear. Don't play 5v5 and 1v1 in practice and kick everyone's ass, and then say that you're worried about muscle memory (which is what the excuse du jour is now) and that's why you aren't playing 5v5 in front of 20,000 people instead of the Berto Center. Don't let you brother play Worldwise Wes and make a clear connection between you not coming back and the perception that the team can't beat Miami. That's cheap crap. There's nothing to be respected here. His ACL isn't somehow more special than the other athletes that suffer the same injury and are all back in the same timeframe barring setback. Iman Shumpert tore his on the same day and has been playing for months. There's a defined rehab path, one that involves playing actual games as the final step, which he's decided to ignore because . Again, nobody should be bigger than the club, and he deserves the criticism he's getting x100. I'm sure Nate Robinson would have rather not been throwing up between timeouts, and going and diving on the floor for loose balls and doing everything possible to help the team win. Ditto Gibson, ditto Noah, and ditto Deng and Hinrich prior to last night. They are trying. They are the ones that deserve actual respect from the fanbase. Not Derrick Rose and his fully healed nee.

Not really. It's crap that it will all be forgotten by next March. People will support him, because he's a really good player who plays for the team they support, but to pretend like Rose and his people have handled this properly and haven't dicked around the club, his teammates and the fanbase is [expletive]. Rose and his brother and team deserve every single bit of criticism and scorn they get. Nobody should be bigger than the club. I rattled off the Chicago sports figures who got torched for far less serious idiocy, but if Rose were a soccer player in Europe he'd be persona non grata with the team and its fans for a very long time. Honestly, your posts are going to be one of the primary ones I look back at next season. Who the hell cares what Rose's perception would be if he were a soccer player in Europe? You wanna make silly comparisons, lets do it. Michael Jordan skipped a season and a half so he could play minor league baseball. Rose can't miss a season to get his ACL to a place he's comfortable with? Sorry, but Rose really doesn't have to be concerned about your feelings, or Joe Internet's feelings. He knows damn well that fans are fickle, and that as long as he comes back and plays at the same level or better than he was at, they'll be back on his side. I think the perception that he doesn't care to play is important. Frankly speaking, he's being a terrible teammate right now. I wonder if any free agents will want to play with him. I love that fans like to call him a terrible teammate, while his teammates and even his opponents all say exactly the opposite. -Just because fans are fickle doesn't make what he's doing right. If he made up his mind not to play, he should have closed the door on it weeks ago. Instead he's been vague about it, while playing hard in practice, while his idiot brother made public statements saying that his brother shouldn't come back and play because the roster wasn't good enough. He's bringing it on himself, and it's difficult to have a lot of respect for someone who's flaky like that. Feel free to reference my posts next year. It's not a contradiction to support him and the team next year while at the same time thinking he's either a soft douche, or a complete ass for pulling this crap over the past 8-10 weeks. -Michael Jordan got flak for bailing after 1993, but he won championships prior to that, and then came back and won 3 more. It's not a valid comparison. Jordan never pretended he was maybe going to come back in 1994. Jordan's manager never said he was going to play baseball because the roster wasn't good enough.. That's the difference. Derrick Rose's ACL has been healed for months. The final "mental" hurdle is to come back and play; that's the only way he's going to get over that. -What players say in public, and what they actually think are two very, very different things.

Not really. It's crap that it will all be forgotten by next March. People will support him, because he's a really good player who plays for the team they support, but to pretend like Rose and his people have handled this properly and haven't dicked around the club, his teammates and the fanbase is horseshit. Rose and his brother and team deserve every single bit of criticism and scorn they get. Nobody should be bigger than the club. I rattled off the Chicago sports figures who got torched for far less serious idiocy, but if Rose were a soccer player in Europe he'd be persona non grata with the team and its fans for a very long time.

That's kind of tough when the coach redlines them for the entire regular season. If nothing else, I hope Thibodeau is learning a lesson from this. What, keep strains of influenza out of the locker room? Make sure Derrick Rose always has a flat landing surface? This team was perfectly healthy in the 2011 playoffs. What about the nagging injuries to Noah, Gibson, Deng, and Hinrich? Thibodeau is an amazing coach, but his one flaw is pushing too hard to win individual, and sometimes meaningless, games without seeing the big picture. And as for Derrick Rose... Thibodeau is the one who put him back into a game that he had no business being in. Is Thibs the one preventing him from playing now?

Should have sat out the rest of the year like Rose. i guess you missed the part where i said noah deserves better Not ripping you. Mocking the highest paid player on the team who's been healthy for two months but is jaking it for fun while the rest of his team busts ass while they're hurt and sick.

The officials have absolutely no pretense of calling this series evenly, so there's at least that.

Should have sat out the rest of the year like Rose.

What a terrible ending.