mul21

Are we convinced Manny is actually healthy? That report of his velocity being almost 5 mph down is concerning.

Not excusing Hoyer in the least, but I think looking at raw numbers and not taking into account the larger load shouldered by the bullpen because of all the really short outings by the fill ins is probably leaving out a significant piece of the puzzle. I don't know how much of an overall difference it makes but an extra 4-8 IP every week adds up pretty quickly.

I'm not sure if the obsession with this dude or Gallo is weirder. Make it stop.

Wick seems to have fixed whatever was broken for a few weeks there. That's encouraging.

Yeah, he's not looked good either from the PAs I've seen. Was he down at AAA until he came over?

Agree with TT. Between both of them showing they can go deeper into games than they were initially ready for/trusted to, I think you mitigate some of the risk of hose 2 not consistently getting to 6IP with a more stable front end of the rotation next season, so that FA/Stroman/Hendricks combo giving you consistent deep starts is almost as big a factor for me as the young guys being able to hold their own deeper into games.

That Brown ranking sure doesn't seem like it includes this year's performance. And that's a really weird way to make that list. I get why they'd do it like that but it doesn't really seem like it's a useful tool for someone to spend time on.

Do you think there's some huge demand for Wisdom/Ortega? Even if there were teams interested, what do you think you're getting for fringy/4A guys like that? And if they determined that they can get a guy at 70 in the draft next year that will be better than any package that they were offered for Willy, I'm going to defer to them knowing what they're doing over the paltry level of knowledge on this board in comparison. I also don't think you sign guys like Suzuki and Stroman to the deals they got if you're planning on a 5 year window before you're competitive again. As was laid out, you add one of the big SS FAs this offseason, someone like Rodon and a 1B who isn't a black hole, suddenly you're looking at a team that projects to win 85+ games and that's not a far fetched reality.

Already had TJS.

Harper/Schwarber combo IMO.

Yeah you could maybe see one of them getting done with some of the interesting pitching prospects, but both would be a stretch. That said, while I'm not quite as conspiratorial as Brett, I do agree with him that a lot of this is public posturing on the Mets side, and between the time pressure of the deadline and the possibility that other NL teams make upgrades(Soto, Montas, maybe Rodon, etc), I wouldn't be convinced that their prospect-clutching is a locked in certainty. At this point, I have my money on a the trio of Contreras, Robertson and Happ going to SD after they miss out on Soto. No way on Robertson after the Hader deal and I doubt they have enough luxury tax room to add much else anyway.

From MLB.com for what it's worth, but at least a little more details on the arsenal.

There's a pretty vast difference between paying a hooker for a handy and assaulting women against their will.

Williams slides to closer (and has been better than Hader this year), Rogers will set up, plus they got assets for the future. They lost almost nothing, especially with Hader's recent performance, saved money, and gained a bunch of controllable years. Really solid move for them and will likely have a net zero effect on contention this year. They need a bat more than anything to help them now.

Never mind I guess.

Someone tell me why Sampson isn’t a thing. Has he added a pitch or velocity or control since he was bad? I know this conversation has happened elsewhere but I’m lazy and you guys are good at this.

I don't want any part of Rodon with his injury history. Obviously he is a great pitcher when healthy, and he is probably worth the risk for a team that is one piece away, but I am too afraid of the Cubs getting burnt by injuries and bad contracts at this stage in the rebuild. I'll play devil's advocate since I think what you're saying makes sense, but there is another lens we can look through. In order to get back to competitiveness, the team needs to have generally unlikely things happen more than normal, and you do that by taking on more risk. There's lots of different types of risk(developmental risk with poor performers or players in low minors, age risk, contract risk, etc), but taking on injury risk can be a way to get ahead. Said another way, for a team that has some emergent pitching depth and will not be close to their payroll capacity even with a Rodon and other significant FA spending, is having Rodon's talent for 2023-2025+ worth paying for, even if it's not for 30 starts? I think you can make the argument that yeah you take the chance to have his upside and ability to anchor a postseason rotation, especially considering there are not any realistic internal options that look possible to do so in that timeline. This feels like justifying Rich Harden 2.0. I haven't followed Rodon closely enough to know if he's that fragile but I still have PTSD from all Harden's unrealized potential.

I've seen this suggestion a couple times now. Is the thought that a contender won't sign Conforto because of the unknowns regarding his health and since the Cubs are out of the playoff picture anyway it doesn't matter if he's really healthy or not this year so they can assume a higher level of risk?

I mean I think we can all internalize that there are no guarantees, and that goes both ways. We've seen that very clearly this year with how the now-departed FA's have performed in their new orgs. Plus in the case of Happ himself his career has been very up and down(needing an Iowa stint after 2 years in MLB, his constantly evolving defensive home, etc) so the degree of confidence we can have about him individually isn't greater than normal either. Rizzo & Schwarber are top 10 in HR, Contreras & Happ are top 20 in OBP, all were/are pretty obviously unwanted past their underpaid years more waiver claims & trade flyers, next year's versions of Rivas, Frazier, Schwindel are probably going to tank the offense again to where competition is inconceivable and we'll think to ourselves, again, "hey if we put better players in these black holes then we could have something" Rizzo would have half the number of HRs if he wasn't playing at Yankee Stadium, the Cubs clearly had no idea how to fix Schwarber. The rest I agree with and really don't want to give up the birds in hand when we don't even know if there is a bush let alone if it has any birds in it.

Yeah, that call was garbage but Heyward has to get the ball out of the infield there. he's just so awful.

The Bears dont have any of this. They have cap space, but instated of committing one way or the other Poles has chose the center lane of blah I mean, yeah...that's the point of what I'm saying. He didn't go full rebuild because he potentially has a QB and didn't have the draft picks. And he didn't go all-in in free agency, because he potentially doesn't have a QB. There's a chance Fields is great. If he is, then 2022 will be a step in that direction then you commit to him. There's a chance Fields is not great. If he isn't, then 2022 will be a step in the wrong direction, but you aren't magnifying that by having committed to him by spending a ton on players to surround him with. Think of what the Dolphins will be if Tua isn't good this season. Think of what the Eagles will be if Hurts isn't good. Poles doesn't want to become that. This logic confuses me. "Let's be bad everywhere to make the QB prove he's worth supporting" makes no sense at all. I get not signing one final piece that you overpay for to get you to a Super Bowl in this situation, but having Swiss cheese for an O line and the sisters of the poor at WR just keeps you that much farther away from contending. We all know this doesn't happen in a one year switch flip so being completely barren of good players at important positions just seems really short sighted to me. You get as good as you can everywhere and if the QB doesn't work out, you go find a new one.

Lower back according to Ross. Doesn't sound real good.