OleMissCub
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Everything posted by OleMissCub
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He DID come from the backwoods. When he was born his father was a traveling teacher going from backwater town to backwater town teaching the locals. 1) I never implied that he had the ability to constantly hit homers....recall when I said that the 300ft fence at Yankee Stadium certainly helped. *wink wink* 2) By all accounts he's considered to be one of the smartest ballplayers that ever played the game. He wasn't a tremendously gifted athlete, but he was able to out think his opponents constantly, especially when it came to hitting and running the basepaths. If you'd ever read about him, you'd realize that 90 percent of what made him great was how much a student he was of the game, etc.
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That wasn't how he wanted to play baseball. He thought he had a better chance to get on base and thus help his team if he played the way that he knew best, which was slapping the ball to all fields i.e. Ichiro.
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The sub-300ft right field fence at Yankee Stadium back then certainly didn't hurt. :-) But I don't think it was luck, I think he was trying to hit the ball out to try and show Ruth up in his own house. That first game he went 6-6 with 3hr, 2 doubles, and a single. The next day he added on another 2hr and a double. And don't say the guy was stupid, because he wasn't. He was characterized by many in his day to be bookish and a bit nerdy for a ballplayer. He was always reading the classics and studying history and politics and was smart enough out of highschool that he got an appointment to West Point and was also urged to go to Med School or Law School. He wasn't a backwaters idiot like Joe Jackson; Cobb's father was a Senator.
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I never said the average pitcher was able to throw 90's. Maybe I communicated that poorly. My point is that they didn't just lob the ball up there and that even the scrubs back then had to have thrown at least as hard as a decent high school pitcher today, which is low to mid 80's. No argument here. The talent pool is much greater with the inclusion of black players and other nationalities.
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Cobb would have told you that his seeming lack of power was because he didn't want to hit home runs. He thought it was a coward's way to score runs. To prove that point to the media, when he was 38 and playing against Ruth's Yankees near the end of his career, he hit 5 home runs in 2 days. Although it would be silly to try and say that Cobb or any other person back then had the power swing that Ruth had.
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I never said that on average they don't. But to act like they just threw the ball up there like you or I would means that you are living in a dreamland.
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Perhaps my highschool team was the exception, given that we won the 5A state champ. 2 years in a row, but we had guys who had a full arsenal of pitches. Besides, pitchers back then threw all kinds of junk up there and were even allowed to doctor the ball with grease, oil, whatever. Look, all I'm saying is that they didn't lob the ball up there. They had to have thrown at least as hard as good high school pitchers today, if not harder. People didn't just walk up to the stadium and say "hey, I wanna be a pitcher." They had minor leagues back then and you had to work your way up. Thus, if you made it to the bigs you had some talent.
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The tighter wound ball that was introduced in 1920 was the main factor for the increase in home runs I think.
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What does that have to do with a human being able to throw a baseball at high velocity? If my teammates in high school could throw 85, why couldn't a grown man 80 years ago?
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There's no way to prove it, but I disagree with the characterization or assumption that pitchers didn't throw as hard. If good high school pitchers across the country (at least where I come from) are able to throw mid 80's and some of the excellent ones can throw 90+ without the help of pitching expertise and great conditioning, then I don't think it's unreasonable to think that a grown man back then couldn't do the same. They obviously threw hard enough to break bones and even kill. Disagree all you like. But you're wrong. :D Why? Has the human arm evolved that much that 17 year olds can do stuff today that grown men in peak physical condition couldn't do 80 years ago?
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That's not even the biggest difference in who could play the game. Consider what life was like back then and there were very large segments of the population that simply didn't have the ability to participate in sports. Today, pretty much anyone that has the athletic ability has the opportunity to play the game. Again, I have to disagree. Ballplayers came from every walk of life, just like today. Ruth came from what was tantamount to an orphanage in a large city. Cobb came from the backwoods Georgia. Walter Johnson came from a corn farm in Kansas. Honus Wagner came from an immigrant coal mining family from Pittsburgh.
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There's no way to prove it, but I disagree with the characterization or assumption that pitchers didn't throw as hard. If good high school pitchers across the country (at least where I come from) are able to throw mid 80's and some of the excellent ones can throw 90+ without the help of pitching expertise and great conditioning, then I don't think it's unreasonable to think that a grown man back then couldn't do the same. They obviously threw hard enough to break bones and even kill.
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I do care about what I post, what I don't care about is wasting my time volleying stats back and forth with you.
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Looks bad on me? I could care less. If you don't care then why bother posting 9,379 times. What does post count have to do with caring about reputation? You got a metric up your sleeve to prove that as well?
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Thanks for explaining it without mocking me. That did make a good bit of sense the way you laid it out. I appreciate you taking the time to do that.
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You mean higher mound.
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Looks bad on me? I could care less.
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In my best interest? Or what? You're gonna get even MORE haughty and arrogant than you already are?
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I'd be interested to see how a modern stud would fare back then, but I don't think it would be that enormous of a difference as you think. It's all relative. There's disadvantages and advantages of playing in his time that Babe faced that Barry doesn't and vice versa. By Ruth's time, baseball was very much the same game it is now as opposed to Honus Wagner's heyday or even the early years of Cobb.
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Thanks, I thought you'd like it. It's very much in the mold of a snotty thing you'd do.
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Zup? http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/9/8/4/f_ruthm_dae597a.jpg 1921, age 26: .378 Batting Average, 59 Home Runs, 171 RBI, 177 Runs, .846 Slg. %, .512 OBP, 457 Total Bases, 44 Doubles, 16 Triples, 17 Stolen Bases, 145 BB, 1.359 OPS oh ya, I have a career ERA of 2.28 and WHIP of 1.16 in 148 games started.
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http://www.gifflix.com/data/media/81/online_fighter.jpg
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WindyCityFootball was available, but WindyCityHoops & WindyCityBasketball were taken. Second City kind of sounds degrading to the city of Chicago. It also makes me think of the comedy troupe immediately.
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How would Olerud have made up the difference in runs and runs batted in? He had less hits and less extra base hits than Sosa did that year. So that means that the 20 more walks that he had over Sosa would have made up that difference in contribution? Who would have driven Olerud in? Henry Rodriguez? Gary Gaetti?
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Hee Seop Choi: http://digitalheadbutt.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/kim-jong-il.jpg