OleMissCub

I'm still not even sure what the heck is going on. Can someone summarize what this debate is all about? I only originally commented because I wanted to know what LD% was.

Can anyone guess this 400+ HR guy who didn't need roids? http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4784/img698ps0.jpg

I admire your desire to be friendly and civil with your antagonists, but with certain people on this board it's a losing effort to attempt to do so. I think we all do a pretty good job as antagonists here...lol I admire your desire to be friendly and civil with your antagonists, but with certain people on this board it's a losing effort to attempt to do so. How is anyone antagonizing him? He's making what might be the most ridiculous statements ever posted on this board (and that's saying something, Mr. It was just a pocketknife). no, they arent ridiculous. and I have no idea about the Mr It or pocketknife references. stats, I presume? or do I need to have a beer with you too sometime?? :P It's in reference to an argument about Ty Cobb we had, and I guess he doesn't realize I have him on ignore since he's still trying to talk to me.

Make a case for him being in the HOF. I just don't see it.

I admire your desire to be friendly and civil with your antagonists, but with certain people on this board it's a losing effort to attempt to do so.

It's OK with me. I try to stand by anything I do. Good man. Do you think Ronnie will ever get in?

Bruce, as a HOF voter, do you support your votes being made public?

It's an absolute travesty and an injustice. It shows how petty and vindictive some baseball people can be. Bowie Kuhn? Give me a break. Buck O'Neil also got shafted. Marvin Miller did more to change the game in the second half of the 20th Century than anybody. And ever since the changes Miller championed were put into place, the owners' revenues' skyrocketed. Right, so baseball people from all sorts benefited from Miller yet they won't put him in. Bruce, have you written or are you going to write a piece about your take on the whole steroid bit. I'd be interested to know your opinion. Also, do you have a HOF vote? I do have a HOF vote. I have not yet written anything about the issue yet. I may after the first of the year when the announcement is made about the class currently on the ballot. Since you have a HOF vote, can I make a case for you to mark Tim Raines on your ballot? You can but you don't need to. I'm voting for him. Then surely the Hawk will be getting your vote too.

It's an absolute travesty and an injustice. It shows how petty and vindictive some baseball people can be. Bowie Kuhn? Give me a break. Buck O'Neil also got shafted. Marvin Miller did more to change the game in the second half of the 20th Century than anybody. And ever since the changes Miller championed were put into place, the owners' revenues' skyrocketed. Right, so baseball people from all sorts benefited from Miller yet they won't put him in. Bruce, have you written or are you going to write a piece about your take on the whole steroid bit. I'd be interested to know your opinion. Also, do you have a HOF vote?

Don't hold your breath for a serious response to this question from some of the people on this board. what kind of response do you expect? it's ridiculous. he's asking for a stat that doesn't exist. no one said stats explain everything about the world and noone said they "base everything on stats." it's like he's asking for statistical analysis of love or hunger or something. So you do recognize that intangibles exist? I'm not trying to be a jerk or start a fight or anything, I'm seriously curious whether "stat-heads" believe in them.

How is Marvin Miller not in the BBHOF? That seems like a travesty given that buttholes like Comiskey and Ban Johnson are in.

Don't hold your breath for a serious response to this question from some of the people on this board.

Not only that, but free agents EVERY YEAR if I remember correctly. Yes. There is another thread about books, but the one I always recommend is "The Lords of the Realm" by John Helyar. It's a fascinating, readable and sometimes hilarious tale of labor relations over the years. The owners have been dumb, dumb, dumb over the years. Marvin Miller had his prayers answered when the owners went for free agency after six years. Nothing like placing a premium on free agents and driving up the price. Well, even when players got free agency, didn't the owners collude for several years to not hire free agents, in effect colluding to keep their teams from improving. Owners suck.

CowboyFan isn't nearly as bad as BAMAFan, but they are definitely up there.

Not only that, but free agents EVERY YEAR if I remember correctly.

:-s

Line Drive percentage. Is that a real stat?

LD%, what the hell is that?

Pops had about the same numbers as McGriff had and he's in: .282/.360/.529, 147ops+, 475HR, 1540 rbi Fred McGriff, if he never gets in, will probably have the best case for a clean player (assuming he is) getting shafted because of the steroid era.

I definitely agree with you there. Puckett doesn't have THE numbers for the HOF, but the writers gave him the benefit of the doubt because of his career ending prematurely. The same isn't given to Belle. The media absolutely HATED that guy (not saying I blame them), but he was just a beast. I think people have almost forgotten about him. He only played 10 full seasons and his average line was .295/.369/.564, 143 OPS+, 40hr, 130 rbi.

IMB!

I heard David Justice on ESPN Radio this morning and he was HELLA pissed off about being linked as one the guys "on the list." The gist of what he was saying was that when he was traded to the Yankees, during his first week there, Roger Clemens' personal trainer (juicer) Brian McNamee approached Justice who was then going through a groin injury and offered to give him HGH. Justice says that he had never really heard of it and believed McNamee when he said it was something normally prescribed by doctors, so he told McNamee that he'd try it out. McNamee told Justice that he'd leave it in his locker for him. Justice says that he later went to his locker and saw that it involved needles, and being a needle-phobe he was like "hell no!" So he says he never took it (the Mitchell Report doesn't make a claim that he took it either). He claimed that if it had been in pill form, knowing what he knew then and thinking that it was a normal medication and wasn't illegal, he would have taken it. He went on to say that most of the speculation within clubhouses in the mid-late 90's about who was rumored to use generally circled around McGwire, Juan Gonzalez, Canseco, and Dykstra. Justice went on to joke about how, if he did take it, he must have gotten the wrong kind, and joked about his numbers in 2001 and how they were pretty pitiful for a suspected juicer.

He was one of the first players to actually "work out", so to speak. He used to go running with weights in his shoes during the offseason. he also beat up black people for cardio work correction: he beat up ALL people for cardio work.

BENGALS @ Niners Titans @ CHIEFS RAVENS @ Dolphins Jets @ PATRIOTS Bills @ BROWNS SEAHAWKS @ Panthers Cardinals @ SAINTS Falcons @ BUCS PACKERS @ Rams Jags @ STEELERS COLTS @ Raiders Lions @ CHARGERS Eagles @ COWBOYS Redskins @ GIANTS VIKINGS @ Bears SI's all bust team: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/12/12/all.disappointments/index.html QB: Alex Smith RB: Larry Johnson WR: Lee Evans TE: Todd Heap OT: Jammal Brown OG: Brian Waters DE: Julius Peppers DT: Warren Sapp LB: Bart Scott CB: Nate Clements S: Troy Polamalu K: Olindo Mare Coach: Eric Mangini GM: Randy Mueller - Dolphins

Very good post, Truffle.