OleMissCub

Nope. The 10 highest IP since 1990: Randy Johnson - 271.7 - 1999 Roger Clemens - 271.3 - 1992 Curt Schilling - 268.7 - 1998 Greg Maddux - 268.0 - 1992 Greg Maddux - 267.0 - 1993 Dave Stewart - 267.0 - 1990 Roy Halladay - 266.0 - 2003 Kevin Brown - 265.7 - 1992 Pat Hentgen - 265.7 - 1996 Roger Clemens - 264.0 - 1997 Pat Hentgen - 264.0 - 1997 Just for the hell of it, I wanted to compare the Cubs pitching staffs in the 30's to the staffs in the 90's and see how many pitchers on their staff's each year passed 200 IP. For some of the years I've put the number of relief appearances in parentheses to try and get a rough measure of how many times relievers were used. 1930: 3 (174) 1931: 3 (172) 1932: 4 1933: 3 1934: 3 1935: 4 1936: 3 1937: 3 1938: 3 (165) 1939: 2 (178) 1990: 1 (346) 1991: 1 (360) 1992: 3 1993: 1 1994: strike 1995: 1 1996: 2 1997: 1 1998: 3 (448) 1999: 2 (435) Needless to say, it appears the increased role of relief pitching is the most obvious reason why innings pitched have gotten lower and lower every year.

Statistician Bill Burgess' most impressive hitting peaks: 1. Barry Bonds - 2001-2004 ---244 OPS+ 2. Babe Ruth - 1920-1924 ---221 OPS+ 3. Ted Williams - 1942-1949 ---209 OPS+ 4. Rogers Hornsby - 1921-1925 ---202 OPS+ 5. Ty Cobb - 1909-1913 ---197 OPS+ 6. Lou Gehrig - 1927-1934 ---193 OPS+ 7. Mickey Mantle - 1956-1962 ---191 OPS+ 8. Honus Wagner - 1905-1909 ---187 OPS+ 9. Stan Musial - 1943-1948 ---174 OPS+ His pitcher peaks: 1. Pedro Martinez, 1997-2003 ---215 ERA+ 2. Greg Maddux, 1992-1995 --- 211 ERA+ 3. Walter Johnson, 1910-1914 ---204 ERA+ 4. Mordecai Brown, 1906-1909 ---196 ERA + 5. Bob Gibson, 1968-1970 ---185 ERA + 6. Roger Clemens, 1986-1992 ---164 ERA+ 7. Sandy Koufax, 1961-1966 ---161 ERA+ 8. Christy Mathewson, 1903-1909 ---155 ERA+ 9. Grover Alexander, 1911-1917 ---150 ERA+

A part of me wonders if this is really true though (not that I would DARE want to find out!!). Because pitchers are such huge commodities these days and are such investments, I think they are more closely monitored (and rightfully so) than they used to be for fear of injury. Nevertheless, here are some of the pitchers that have gone 285+ IP in the last 40 years whose arms didn't fall off: Jack Morris: 293 IP in 1983 Bert Blyleven: 3 times (high of 325 IP in 1973) Steve Carlton: 5 times (346 IP in 1972) Dennis Martinez: 292.3 in 1979. Catfish Hunter: 4 times (328 IP in 1975) Nolan Ryan: 3 times (332 IP in 1974) Wilbur Wood: 5 times (376 IP in 1972) - HOLY S---! Ferguson Jenkins: 7 times (328 IP in 1974) Mickey Lolich: 4 times (376 IP in 1971) Gaylord Perry: 8 times (344 IP in 1973) Jim Palmer: 6 times (323 IP in 1975) Mike Cuellar: 3 times (292 IP in 1970) Jim Kaat: 2 times (303 IP in 1975) I'm not counting Niekro who did it like a thousand times or something on account that he basically threw one pitch.

I have very little doubt that pitch count was much lower back then, mainly due to the fact that people didn't K very much in those days.

Awful hitters who didn't require any effort to get out. Lots of them. Take the 1946 Cardinals. They had Stan Musial, Enos Slaughter, and Whitey Kurowski, but their other 5 hitters OPS'ed under .700. And they led the league in runs. I don't know if that's really the right answer. I'm not saying you are wrong, because clearly there are better hitters today than back then due to the talent pool increase. However, your Cardinals example was pretty narrow and was just looking at one team in a single year. Let's look at NL league OPS by decade. Now, we have to remember that the very low .OPS in '06 and '16 is due to the fact that slugging wasn't very high in those days i.e. deadball era. 1906: .658 (league slugging .330) 1916: .655 (league slugging .341) 1926: .757 1936: .823 1946: .717 1956: .748 1966: .725 1976: .715 1986: .731 1996: .735 2006: .785

Well, what you are implying about pitchers back then and their rubber arms is a bit exaggerated. I think their innings pitched is often times higher than modern pitchers because relievers weren't used as much back then. As a starting pitcher back then, you were generally expected to try and pitch a complete game, win or lose. This actually isn't an idea that is too far away from where we are now. For example, the most complete games last year was 7; in 1998 it was 15; in 1988 it was 15; in 1978 it was 23, and in 1968 it was 30! Let's look at some of the great pitchers throughout history based on their 162 game averages: Cy Young (1890-1911): 32 games started, 290 IP Christy Mathewson (1900-1916): 31 GS, 274 IP Mordecai Brown (1903-1916): 27 GS, 265 IP Walter Johnson (1907-1927): 30 GS, 273 IP Pete Alexander (1911-1930): 31 GS, 272 IP Lefty Grove (1925-1941): 28 GS, 249 IP Carl Hubbell (1928-1943): 30 GS, 252 IP Dizzy Dean (1930-1947): 28 GS, 244 IP Bob Feller (1936-1956): 31 GS, 246 IP Warren Spahn (1942-1965): 31 GS, 251 IP Whitey Ford (1950-1967): 31 GS, 230 IP Bob Gibson (1959-1975): 32 GS, 261 IP Juan Marichal (1960-1975): 33 GS, 257 IP Ferguson Jenkins (1965-1983): 32 GS, 243 IP Nolan Ryan (1966-1993): 33 GS, 231 IP Tom Seaver (1967-1986): 33 GS, 249 IP Jim Palmer (1965-1984): 32 GS, 248 IP Steve Carlton (1965-1988): 33 GS, 244 IP Roger Clemens (1984-2007): 33 GS, 236 IP Greg Maddux (1986-2008): 33 GS, 230 IP Randy Johnson (1988-2008): 33 GS, 233 IP Pedro Martinez (1992-2008): 31 GS, 218 IP some modern guys: Zambrano: 32 GS, 214 IP Halladay: 32 GS, 228 IP Oswalt: 33 GS, 223 IP Santana: 28 GS, 210 IP The basic games started and innings pitched really hasn't changed all that much throughout history.

Some photos from the Negro Leagues: Rube Foster, the founder of the Negro Leagues: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3264/2438835535_114a24e8f2.jpghttp://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/rube-foster-hof.jpg Satchel Paige. ""Paige was the best pitcher I ever saw." - Bob Feller "If me and Satch were together in St. Louis, we would clinch the pennant by July and go fishing from then until World Series time." - Dizzy Dean http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/7602/satchze1.jpg http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=46375&d=1215475280 Josh Gibson: "Greatest hitter I ever saw." - Bill Veeck ""He can do everything. He hits the ball a mile. And he catches so easy." - Walter Johnson http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=46254&d=1215377044http://mopupduty.com/baseballprints//catalog/images/joshgibson1.jpg http://www.psacard.com/smrweb/backissues/smr0804/Josh-Gibson-basher.jpg http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33319&stc=1&d=1198519430 Oscar Charleston, probably the best Negro League player of all time: "He was the greatest player I ever saw." - John McGraw "Charleston could hit that ball a mile. He didn't have a weakness. When he came up, we just threw and hoped like hell he wouldn't get a hold of one and send it out of the park." - Dizzy Dean http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/oscar-charleston-hof-jpg.jpg Smokey Joe Williams, probably the best Negro League pitcher of all time. Smokey Joe's Stats. "He'd be a sure 30 game winner" - Ty Cobb "He threw harder than anyone I ever saw" - Satchel Paige http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16807&d=1167450293http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/4425/youngjoewilliamsvo7.jpg Josh Gibson and Cool Papa Bell: http://northbysouth.kenyon.edu/2000/baseball/josh%20and%20cool.JPG Ernie Banks in the Negro Leagues: http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2048/banksgg3.jpg Pop Lloyd. When Honus Wagner was told that Lloyd was being called "the black Honus Wagner, he said that he considered the comparison with Lloyd an honor. http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/pop-lloyd-hof.jpg Biz Mackey in Japan in 1927: http://www.nlbpa.com/BizMackey_Japan.jpg James "Cool Papa" Bell. "Once he hit a line drive right past my ear. I turned around and saw the ball hit his ass sliding into second!" - Satchel Paige "If the door were open, you'd be the first one I'd hire." - Connie Mack http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/photos/Bell_Cool_Papa1942.jpg http://z.lee28.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cool_papa_bell2.jpg http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15543&d=1162450156 Ernie and Paige: http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/photos/Banks_and_Paige.jpg Homestead Grays, 1913: http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5449/earlygraysel6.jpg 1944 Homestead Grays, probably one of the best Negro League teams ever: L to R: Jelly Jackson, Ray Battle, Edward Robinson, Sam Bankhead, Josh Gibson, Buck Leonard, Dave Hoskins, Jerry Benjamin, and Cool Papa Bell. http://northbysouth.kenyon.edu/2000/baseball/Grays%20dugout.JPG Buck Leonard: http://images.mastronet.com/images/Auction29/photographs/36566.jpg Larry Brown, maybe the best Negro League defensive catcher. During an exhibition game, he threw out Ty Cobb three times in succession when he attempted to steal. Cobb was so impressed with Brown that after the game he approached Brown and offered to introduce him into the majors by passing him off as a Cuban. Brown declined because he figured he'd be recognized and be caught lying. http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13757&d=1157345512 1905 Chicago Union Giants: http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/ichicdn/s0029/s002974.jpg 1932 Pittsburgh Crawdads and their "Big Five". L to R, Oscar Charleston, Ted Page, Josh Gibson, Judy Johnson, and Jud Wilson. http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/judy-johnson-hof.jpg

I highly doubt that was it. Black MVP's before 1963: Jackie Robinson - 1949 Roy Campanella - 1951, 1953, 1955 Willie Mays - 1954 Don Newcombe - 1956 Ernie Banks - 1958, 1959 Frank Robinson - 1961 Maury Wills - 1962 Also, Elston Howard won it in the AL in 1963.

1963 NL MVP voting: 1st place: Sandy Koufax, 25-5, 20 CG, 1.88 ERA, 0.875 WHIP, 306 K's 2nd place: Dick Groat, .319/.377/.450, 129 OPS+, 6 HR, 43 doubles, 11 triples, 73 RBI, 85 runs, 3 stolen bases, 56 BB's, 284 TB 3rd place: Hank Aaron, .319/.391/.586, 179 OPS+, 44 HR, 29 doubles, 4 triples, 130 RBI, 121 runs, 31 stolen bases, 78 BB's, 370 TB I get why Sandy got it; One of the best seasons ever by a pitcher, his team won the World Series, yada yada. But Groat over Aaron? Aaron scored 36 more runs than Groat and drove in 57 more. His OPS+ was 50 points higher! Aaron had nearly 100 more total bases!

Bill James' Top 10 Players according to total Win Shares: 1. Babe Ruth - 758 2. Ty Cobb - 726 3. Honus Wagner - 655 4. Henry Aaron - 641 5. Willie Mays - 641 6. Cy Young - 635 7. Tris Speaker - 633 8. Stan Musial - 604 9. Eddie Collins - 572 10. Mickey Mantle - 565 His Top 100 Greatest Players of all time (including Negro Leaguers) from his Baseball Abstract in 2000. The book has numerous explanations for why some players are ranked higher than others and how he is able to rate Negro Leaguers, etc. 1. Babe Ruth 2. Honus Wagner 3. Willie Mays 4. Oscar Charleston 5. Ty Cobb 6. Mickey Mantle 7. Ted Williams 8. Walter Johnson 9. Josh Gibson 10. Stan Musial 11. Tris Speaker 12. Henry Aaron 13. Joe DiMaggio 14. Lou Gehrig 15. Joe Morgan 16. Barry Bonds 17. Satchel Paige 18. Eddie Collins 19. Lefty Grove 20. Pete Alexander aka Grover Cleveland 21. Mike Schmidt 22. Rogers Hornsby 23. Cy Young 24. Frank Robinson 25. Turkey Stearnes 26. Rickey Henderson 27. Pop Lloyd 28. Mel Ott 29. Jimmie Foxx 30. George Brett 31. Mark McGwire 32. Jackie Robinson 33. Pete Rose* 34. Eddie Matthews 35. Craig Biggio 36. Warren Spahn 37. Carl Yastrzemski 38. Tom Seaver 39. Arky Vaughan 40. Napoleon Lajoie 41. Yogi Berra 42. Christy Mathewson 43. Mule Suttles 44. Johnny Bench 45. Jeff Bagwell 46. Bob Gibson 47. Kid Nichols 48. Cal Ripken 49. Roger Clemens 50. Duke Snider 51. Sandy Koufax 52. Smokey Joe Williams 53. Roy Campanella 54. Tony Gwynn 55. Robin Yount 56. Bob Feller 57. Reggie Jackson 58. Ryne Sandberg 59. Charlie Gehringer 60. Wade Boggs 61. Eddie Murray 62. Johnny Mize 63. Harmon Killebrew 64. Rod Carew 65. Buck Leonard 66. Joe Jackson 67. Cristobal Torriente 68. Hank Greenberg 69. Willie McCovey 70. Home Run Baker 71. Al Simmons 72. Mickey Cochrane 73. Ken Griffey Jr. 74. Roberto Clemente 75. Frank Thomas 76. Cool Papa Bell 77. Ernie Banks 78. Steve Carlton 79. Mike Piazza 80. Roberto Alomar 81. Tim Raines 82. Willie Stargell 83. Three Finger Brown 84. Paul Waner 85. Minnie Minoso 86. Willie Wells 87. RON SANTO 88. Frankie Frisch 89. Sam Crawford 90. Al Kaline 91. Brooks Robinson 92. Greg Maddux 93. Barry Larkin 94. Carl Hubbell 95. Martin Dihigo 96. Robin Roberts 97. Carlton Fisk 98. Kirby Puckett 99. Ed Delahanty 100. Billy Williams I thought his blurb about Pete Rose is particularly interesting:

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/3786/24477313662303d075bfyt4.jpg

LOL at the single dad with gray hair commercial

Top 7 hitting careers according to the WARP3: Bonds - 236.4 Ruth - 227.8 Mays - 220.1 Aaron - 217.6 Wagner - 203.0 Cobb - 194.3 Musial - 191.5 Interesting to note that after age 35, Bonds' WARP3 numbers: Bonds - 80.7 (34% of total WARP3) Not too many players I'd imagine can say that a third of their career value came after the age of 35.

Some weird poses of pitchers that Baseball Magazine did in 1913: http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitcher6.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitcher5.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitcher4.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitch1.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/Pitcher20.jpg http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29254&stc=1&d=1189964085 Also wanted to add this picture of Mathewson and the craziest man to play the game: Rube Waddell http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23572&d=1178394665 Good shot of Alexander: http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36781&d=1204338206

It would appear that Ty Cobb has one of those girly, limp-wristed handshakes. HA, it does look like that. Maybe he was scared of Honus. I probably would be.

Yep, I often think about how cool it would be to see a game from the old days broadcast using modern capacities. I think if I had to pick one game from the old times that I'd like to see, it'd probably be a game between the Athletics and Yankees from 1927. In that game, the HOF'ers you'd be able to see: On the A's: Mickey Cochrane, Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker, Eddie Collins, Zach Wheat, Al Simmons, Jimmie Foxx, Lefty Grove On the Yanks: Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Tony Lazzeri, Earle Combs, Leo Durocher, Bill Dickey, Waite Hoyt, Herb Pennock, Stan Coveleski

A small essay from Bill James about who was better, Mantle or DiMaggio? http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8381/mickyleftgifze0.gifhttp://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5165/mickyrightgifmx1.gifhttp://img165.imageshack.us/img165/8247/joedgifcz3.gif http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2637/01micksg5.jpg http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33549&d=1199084348http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33550&d=1199084359

make it stop!!!

From My Life In Baseball, Ty Cobb recounts meeting Honus Wagner for the first time during the 1909 World Series. http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6123/cobbwagnermz9.gif http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8783/cobbwagyg2.jpg http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28617&d=1189038903

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/1410/24477313662303d075bfqs5.jpg

Just got spiked. Everyone keeps saying ankle, and I don't see it. Just looks like he got stepped on.

It's amazing how similar the outfield panorama of West Side Park (old Cubs park) is to Wrigley: August 30, 1908, Cubs v. Giants http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/6020/aug30hs7.jpg West Side Park was where the University of Illinois Medical Center is now.

2008: Year of the s**t stretch singers.

Hate to bust up the width of this page, but I can't let these beauties go without being posted: Wrigley Field, July 27, 1929, Phillies v. Cubs http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38681&d=1207019120 Polo Grounds, May 20, 1905, Pirates v. Giants (that outfield depth...wow) http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38698&d=1207022274 Chicago West Side Park, July 2, 1908, Pirates v. Cubs http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38729&d=1207057307 Yankee Stadium, 1929. HOFers Ruth in RF, Gehrig at 1st, Lazzeri at 2B, Leo Durocher at SS, Bill Dickey at C, Earle Combs in CF, and Herb Pennock pitching: http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=39797&d=1208021166 http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/Image2.jpg http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/Image45.jpg Your 1915 A.L. All Stars: All in the HOF except for Daubert and Burns. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/1915MajorLeagueAll-StarsPhoto.jpg

That would be great if it was! I just wish people posted more in it!!