rawaction

ME/ Cubs 1. C/C 2. A/A or B 3. B/B 4. C/B 5. B/C 6. B/A 7. B/B 8. B/B 9. B/B 10. C/C

Raw Dawgs select TE Heath Miller

Yes, you're right. Those were your exact words. But, its essentially the same thing. You later said that acquiring Matt Murton gave you hope that Hendry is placing greater value in OBP, true? How is it essentially the same thing? I basically said that he has made moves in the last couple years to lead me to believe he at least is aware that it's an important stat. Just because I argued that him acquiring players with high OBP potential, doesn't mean that I am arguing that he is specifically targeting similar players. If he was Hollandsworth, Burnitz, and Perez wouldn't have been regular starters for 3/4 of the season. For Pete's sake, I conceded the point. You're right. You never literally argued that Hendry was targetting high OBP guys. But, you, in fact, said that the acquisition of Murton gave you hope that Hendry was valuing OBP. I don't think it is such leap, or that big of a deal, to characterize the argument as I did. Further, because the issue had gone off on a tangent regarding the nuts and bolts of the acquisition of Murton, I thought that I could more easily summarize the argument that way. I just think that it makes a big difference in the argument. And I'm making sure I'm not being villified for something I didn't say. You did say "it lessens the support for the argument that Hendry is targeting more OBP friendly batters". If that was my argument, I would clearly be the loser in that one, don't you agree? Cuse's post perfectly highlights the way I feel about the situation. I clearly said in my first post on the matter that Hendry's lack of direction either way is cause enough to criticize him. You are the one that took the tangent on the Murton situation. It doesn't matter how it got done, but Hendry acquired a player with the best control of the strikezone in the organization, and you refuse to give him credit for it. You refuse to give him credit for acquiring the best OBP players in the lineup, because he may or may not been looking at that exact category when acquiring them.

Why not boost his trade value by allowing him to throw a great start or two, by that same logic? Prospects don't lose or gain value that easily. They don't have all that much value to begin with. IF a team likes a player, they will most likely know more than just the numbers. They like a pitcher because of his talent. If Hill gets shelled, his talent doesn't lessen. Conversely, if he throws 2 no-hitters, his talent doesn't grow. You said it yourself. If the Cubs know who they have in Rich Hill, best believe most other teams do too.

Yes, you're right. Those were your exact words. But, its essentially the same thing. You later said that acquiring Matt Murton gave you hope that Hendry is placing greater value in OBP, true? How is it essentially the same thing? I basically said that he has made moves in the last couple years to lead me to believe he at least is aware that it's an important stat. Just because I argued that him acquiring players with high OBP potential, doesn't mean that I am arguing that he is specifically targeting similar players. If he was Hollandsworth, Burnitz, and Perez wouldn't have been regular starters for 3/4 of the season.

I never said Hendry has been targeting OBP players. I said he's aware of OBP as an important statistic.

I think they would if they got the right deal. I'm not a fan of Shannon, though.

Does he really value OPB though? To me, Hendry is moreso trying to emulate the Yankees than show legitimate concern for OPB. For example, the Yanks collect superstars. Sheff, Giambi, ARod, etc. are all players brought in by the the Yankees because the are superstars. Sure, their stardom arises partially due to their strong OBP statistics, but those are likely incidental to the fact that the Yanks want them. Due to payroll constraints (as everyone has who aren't the Yankees), Hendry is kind of the poor-man's Brian Cashman. He collects lesser star players on the cheap. He appreciates that Lee, ARam and Nomar have potential to produce, but OBP is incidental. Hendry hasn't shown a willingness to chase, or force the play of, high OBP players with limited power like Boston or Oakland does. OBP just doesn't seem to be a priority in the supporting cast. i agree w/ you, jc. the only guy he's gotten that would indicate that he cares about OBP is lawton...and his OBP sucked while he was here. so i don't know if he'll go that route again any time soon. I think he valued Lee's OBP. Lee didn't have the huge upside of Ramirez or Barrett when acquired. He didn't have the big name of Nomar. The only things that stood out about Lee is that he had the walk rate and the power/size to do well outside of Florida and defense. The move for Lawton gives me hope that Hendry values OBP a little. Going out and getting and then retaining Todd Walker gives me hope (of course the love for Soriano over Walker causes my indifference that I wrote about last post). And acquiring Matt Murton and subsequently trading Lawton and Hollandsworth to get him on the field gives me hope. Calling up Adam Greenberg gives me hope. Getting Jerry Hairston gives me hope. I guess I can't say for a fact that Hendry values OBP, but you can't say that the moves are incidental. Really? The fact that he traded one of the only guys on our team capable of taking a walk for Lee makes me think that he valued Lee for something other than his BB taking abilities. He traded one of the only guys capable of taking a walk, because that guy wasn't capable of hitting very well. Lee could do both. He obviously also valued his defense. Also, add giving Bellhorn the 3B job in 2003 supports the argument that Hendry values OBP a little bit.

I was thinking the same thing :lol: I was thinking of the numbers 12 and 14, but more like a 1 in 12 or 1 in 14 chance of winning the free gas the way Jaxx games have been attended this season.

I like Brandon Sing alot, but I think you gotta beware of Jason Dubois syndrome with him. I think he will have trouble adjusting to ML pitching. I think his plate discipline will suffer because there won't be the situations where he's pitched around like he is now in the minors. IF the Cubs are gonna give Brandon Sing the LF job in 2006, it's gonna be a long season for him and the Cubs. So what would you do, Raw? Start him in AAA and bring him up in June or so if he hits? Yep. He would be my LF in Iowa.

Does he really value OPB though? To me, Hendry is moreso trying to emulate the Yankees than show legitimate concern for OPB. For example, the Yanks collect superstars. Sheff, Giambi, ARod, etc. are all players brought in by the the Yankees because the are superstars. Sure, their stardom arises partially due to their strong OBP statistics, but those are likely incidental to the fact that the Yanks want them. Due to payroll constraints (as everyone has who aren't the Yankees), Hendry is kind of the poor-man's Brian Cashman. He collects lesser star players on the cheap. He appreciates that Lee, ARam and Nomar have potential to produce, but OBP is incidental. Hendry hasn't shown a willingness to chase, or force the play of, high OBP players with limited power like Boston or Oakland does. OBP just doesn't seem to be a priority in the supporting cast. i agree w/ you, jc. the only guy he's gotten that would indicate that he cares about OBP is lawton...and his OBP sucked while he was here. so i don't know if he'll go that route again any time soon. I think he valued Lee's OBP. Lee didn't have the huge upside of Ramirez or Barrett when acquired. He didn't have the big name of Nomar. The only things that stood out about Lee is that he had the walk rate and the power/size to do well outside of Florida and defense. The move for Lawton gives me hope that Hendry values OBP a little. Going out and getting and then retaining Todd Walker gives me hope (of course the love for Soriano over Walker causes my indifference that I wrote about last post). And acquiring Matt Murton and subsequently trading Lawton and Hollandsworth to get him on the field gives me hope. Calling up Adam Greenberg gives me hope. Getting Jerry Hairston gives me hope. I guess I can't say for a fact that Hendry values OBP, but you can't say that the moves are incidental.

I like Brandon Sing alot, but I think you gotta beware of Jason Dubois syndrome with him. I think he will have trouble adjusting to ML pitching. I think his plate discipline will suffer because there won't be the situations where he's pitched around like he is now in the minors. IF the Cubs are gonna give Brandon Sing the LF job in 2006, it's gonna be a long season for him and the Cubs.

So you want Winn or similar in CF, but if you can't make sure to get above average OBP guys at the corners and SS? I'm having trouble making sense of that. Sorry, I thought Winn had a lot better numbers than he does....scratch that.

Well, it was an easy decision not to trade Walker for the spare parts you'd get this time of year, so yeah, um okay, good job not screwing up Jim. Newsflash, Jim hired Dusty and has allowed him to mismanage this team. Something tells me they do agree on most things. The Chicago Bears are an inept organization. One of their biggest failings for years has been sticking with what wasn't and wouldn't be working. But recently, they've realized what all successful teams realize, that you must cut bait at times. They let Shea go when he proved incompetent. They went from Hutchinson to Orton when Kyle clearly outplayed Chad. Hendry has seen failure, but has stuck with it. If Jim fired Dusty this offseason and actively pursued targets who could improve the many needs on this team, then I'd give him all the credit in the world. But as long as he remains on the track they are currently riding, I will be critical of his work. I'm so on the fence with Hendry. He shows he at least knows what OBP is by going out and getting guys like Lee, Walker, and Nomar. He shows that he knows the team needs to get good young production by going out and getting Barrett and Ramirez, and putting as many eggs in the Patterson basket as he did....and staying away from the retreads that this team was known for under Lynch. But then he does stuff like trade value for Macias. Allows Burnitz and Hollandsworth to be his starting corner OFs. And allows Baker to mismanage this team. I just don't know what direction Jim is going in, and actually that's probably enough reason to be critical of him.

Oh I couldn't disagree more. It was kind of fun to watch Dusty get outmanaged back when he was in San Fran. Chris Russo, aka Mad Dog on the Mike and the Mad Dog Show, is a big Giants fans who would go insane watching the stuff Dusty did. I've never seen a manager so unable to prepare 2-3 at bats in advance. He's literally caught off guard almost everytime a matchup doesn't result in the desired result. He doesn't get guys warm in advance of a starter falling apart, he waits for the wheels to start falling off before he does anything. I would say he is easily in the bottom half in terms of strategy. just wanted to add He's always calling for pitchouts, so much so that of course occasionally they'll catch a guy, but more often than not, the runner isn't going, and all he does is put a pitching staff with control and pitch count issues deeper into holes. He hit and runs with batters who have severe contact issues and slow runners. I could go on and on. He's truly awful in this regard. The only thing I give him credit for is his reported ability to get guys to like playing for him, although 2004 and 2005 really muddies the water on that supposedly clear-cut Dusty strength. Well, I guess I just think most managers make shaky in-game decisions. A couple weeks ago, Larussa sat on Ray King (good thing it wasn't the other way around) instead of bringing him in to face Patterson, who had no shot against him. Instead, I believe, Corey hit a 2-run double off a RHP. I think most managers either go with gut feelings too much or go by the book too much. I have been left scratching my head on numerous occassions with managerial moves, and not just from the Cubs.

LOL. The Ex/Nats wanted Brendan Harris over Murton?

Chicago NL Chicago AL Los Angeles NL Also teams like Seattle (a lot of young SS talent, but all unproven), Philly (if they can get rid of Rollins), St. Louis (not sure of Eck's situation), Washington (if they admit Guzman was a monumental mistake), and Florida's a darkhorse for everyone. I thought the Dodgers were content with Izturis. If they are indeed in the market, I'd wager they'd go after Nomar. After a solid 2004, Uribe sucks this year, so the ChiSox likely would have interest. I can't see St. Louis paying $8M for Furcal in light of Eck's year, or Philly getting rid of Rollins. In the same vein, I can't see Bowden admitting the Guzman mistake or MLB letting him buy his way out. (No, I don't believe they will have an owner in place by 2006). I didn't see Seattle in the market due to their young talent, but I really have no sense of what they want to do. So, it looks like there are indeed players out there. If someone other than the Cubs want to pay $32M, more power to them. Izturis has been horrid since his strong start. After hitting .342 with a high .380s OBP in April and May. He has hit .173/.218....including the worst June I have ever seen. 9 for 86, with 4 walks and a double. He scored 16 runs in May....15 since then. Add in that this has perhaps been his worst defensive season to date, and the Dodgers will be looking.

What about Dusty is a medicore manager on the wrong team? I think he could do well in the right situation (03 wasn't bad, 02 with Giants was pretty good). I truly think players like to play for him, especially bench players and players who are gonna be in the lineup 155 times/season (Maddux, Lee, Burnitz, Alou, etc). His in-game decisions aren't any worse than any other manager's. His lack of understand how to use a pitching staff and his lack of putting his team in the best place to succeed are his biggest flaws. Those are 2 big flaws that this team can't afford though.

Chicago NL Chicago AL Los Angeles NL Also teams like Seattle (a lot of young SS talent, but all unproven), Philly (if they can get rid of Rollins), St. Louis (not sure of Eck's situation), Washington (if they admit Guzman was a monumental mistake), and Florida's a darkhorse for everyone.

No to Burnitz. RF/LF- Sign Giles, trade for Manny, trade for Dunn, trade for Huff, trade for Floyd, or trade for Ibanez (or similar). Could do any combo of 2 not including the first 2 names. SS- Re-sign Nomar, trade for Lugo, get above average OBP players in RF, LF, and CF and start Cedeno at SS. CF- keep Hairston in CF, sign Randy Winn (or similar not named Lofton), get above average OBP players in RF, LF, and SS and start Patterson in CF....until Pie is ready.

Raw Dawgs select Michael Jenkins WR Atlanta

Raw Select- QB Drew Brees

Gotta be [expletive] kidding me! I tied and lost the damn tiebreaker. This has been a shitty season.

Raw Dawgs select TE Alge Crumpler

Except Walker gets more extra base hits than Furcal, so he doesn't always have to steal a base to get into scoring position. I'm not sure that kind of money is worth some stolen bases. Also, the Braves don't want him back. If they felt he was that important to their team, I think they'd find a way to keep him around. They usually aren't wrong about these types of things. It's not about if they think he's important or not. It's about whether they think they can compete with their funds allocated elsewhere. Do you think they thought Sheffield was done when they got rid of him? Or JD Drew? They got rid of them because they thought they could maintain their level of success by replacing them for less money and using what was left over to strengthen another need on the team. If they don't re-sign Furcal, it will be because they believe they can go with a cheaper alternative and make up the production elsewhere, not because they feel they don't need him.