BigbadB

He certainly is part of the problem with this lineup. OBP is OBP. It's needed everywhere. Michael has a terrible approach at the plate. He's talented enough that if he adjusts, he should be fine, but he hasn't shown any indications that he will. The "he's settling into the position" excuse is growing thin with MB. He's 28 years old. He played C exclusively in 2001, 2003 and 2004. He played C virtually exclusively in 2002, with just 6 appearances at 1B. Until he shows that he can be more than a first pitch hack who routinely grounds into double plays because of his tendency to swing at pitcher's pitches designed to ground into double plays, then he will remain part of the problem. Thank you for seeing things dispassionately. The amount of rose-colored glasses wearing in these fora is staggering. It's nice to know that people believe in the Cubs unconditionally, but enough is enough. I don't think I had the rose colored glasses on, I clearly mentioned that Barrett tends to ground into too many double plays due to his approach at the plate. Also, most guys have been catching all through the minors, and didn't Barrett come up as a 3rd baseman? I am not making an excuse for his defense, I didn't say it was good, I just said I thought it could improve. Barrett has grounded into 5 double plays this year. 13 all of last year. Neifi Perez, on the other hand, has grounded into 12 double plays already this year. :wink:

Lawton has a .271/.377/.825 line this year. How would that not be an upgrade? He's not Adam Dunn, but that .377 OBP would sure be nice. I guess I had a misperception about his stats both this year and career. He would be nice to have, but the way Hollandsworth is going, it'd be nicer to find a SS with those same numbers. Finding an Available SS with decent numbers is a much trickier proposition. ronnie cedeno? What, right under our very noses? How could this be? Seriously, what will it take to get Dusty to at least give him more opportunities to prove what he can do at the major league level?

I was sick of this team with Patterson and Perez at the top of the order. I'll be fine again if they stick with Hairston and Walker at the top of the order, and I think the team will start winning again with this important adjustment.

Kelly Shoppach seems to be the Red Sox number #1 trade prospect. Varitek has him blocked for the remainder of Shoppach's prime years.

He's hurt right now. He'll miss at least the next two weeks. I definitely wouldn't want to bring him up after sitting for a month due to an injury.

There's already a thread about this very same thing, so this one is getting locked.

I could live with him hitting .257 if he'd work the count better. He still doesn't draw many walks. But I'm not singling him out, well maybe today I am, but you know me, I hold everyone accountable, not just the usual suspects. I was just curious when others complain about production vs. contract his name rarely gets mentioned. Hes not supposed to walk!!!! What good does a walk do (most of the time) when the pitcher is hitting behind you. Look at when he was hitting second last year. He changed his approach at the plate and got more walks. He has been a pretty decent average guy which is what you want in the 8 hole, not OBP. Agreed. I want the bottom of the order guys swinging away and trying to make something happen. Not swinging at bad pitches mind you, but put the ball in play.

Roast, Not to be critical, but I think you misspelled a word.

There was a good shot of Burnitz busting his hump down the first base line in yesterday's game. If anyone else saw it, it was the true definition of the word "gamer".

At this juncture, and if I was Hendry, I wouldn't even remotely consider trading for any player at any position that doesn't provide at minimal .350+ lifetime OBP. The only way Dusty can't screw up the line up is to get rid of the guys who can't get on base.

:facesjump:

You ruined it. We almost made it through two pages of posts without seeing Patterson or Perez anywhere near the top of the order. I think it's salvageable though. Let's all print off this particular thread and mail it to Dusty. At this point, I don't care if he did this line up: Lee Burnitz Ramirez Walker Hairston Barrett Patterson Cedeno It would still be better than starting a line up card with the names Patterson and/or Neifi.

Yes but lawton plays a position where he can get on the field every day Hairston Jr. could be in left field everyday if the manager played him there.

I think he is really pressing,wanting to break out and not hear the boo birds.I think he should start swinging at pitches he normally wouldn't and lay off pitches he normally would swing at again, grasping at straws. At this point, I wouldn't have a problem with him standing at the plate with his bat on his shoulder, just watching pitches. Pitchers know Corey so well at this point, they rarely need to throw him a strike to strike him out. Hernandez went upstairs on him over and over, and Corey fell for it every time.

Did you forget who manages the Cubs? Cedeno was hitting .377 in Iowa and he's riding the pines in favor of Neifi Perez. I'm not the slightest bit interested in overpaying for Gathright so that he can sit next to Cedeno on the bench.

Look at the two players contracts. Why on earth would you choose Jeter over A-Rod? Next year, it will cost the Yankees more for Jeter than it will for A-Rod.

Not only are Corey and Neifi two of the worst hitters in our line up right now, but they are also the first two that get to come to the plate and swing a bat against the opposing pitcher. There's something very not right about that picture.

Since Walker understands the importance of OBP at the top of the order moreso than Dusty, let me be the first to suggest Hendry fire Dusty and turn Walker into a player/manager. :P

The extra votes were necessary because someone had to cover for me not voting.

Which brings me back to the title of this thread. I find it quite humurous. "Colorado wants Cedeno and 4m for Preston Wilson". I'm sure they do. I'm sure they'd like to lower Helton's contract by about 10m per year. I'm sure they want the sun to shine tomorrow. I'd bet they'd like to see the hill they play on at home everyday lowered by about 5,000 ft. I'd bet they would like to have every team in MLB treat them like an expansion team all over again and require that they receive a top prospect from every team. They can want all they want, but it doesn't mean they are gonna get what they want. While they are wishing for Cedeno and 4m for Preston Wilson, I'll go ahead and wish that George Steinbrenner will trade A-Rod to the Cubs, while paying 100% of his salary, for Ronny Cedeno. What Colorado should "really" want, is for some team, any team to "really" want Preston Wilson or any part of the ugly contract he currently receives.

When NSB first loaded the forum index screen, Baseball Discussions wasnt in there, so I came to rivalries, and then selected Baseball Discussions from the pull down menu at the bottom of the page on the right. I then was prompted to log in and it worked fine, and no, I'm not a premium user. Well, why not? :D

One of the biggest myths I've seen repeated on this board is that Aramis wasn't playing well when he was traded to the Cubs. He actually had a better average and OBP with the Pirates in 2003 before he was traded. There are some guys who do well when traded midseason (Orlando Cabrera last year, for example), but it's not as if coming to Chicago kickstarted Aramis's season. He was already playing well. More often than not when a guy is traded midseason, he plays at the same level or worse for his new team. After having a very good 2001, Aramis had a down 2002. He was bad for the entire year. I hope Huff can turn things around midseason if the Cubs do acquire him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he continues to struggle. I don't know what Huff's excuse is, but Aramis was playing injured for most of 2002. In 2003, Aramis was doing okay offensively, but he was the only decent bat in their line up since it was Giles that spent a good portion of the first half of that season on the DL. Therefore, they didn't give Aramis the best of pitches to hit.

Didn't the Cubs set a strikeout record for a season (as a team) in 2003 when they made the playoffs? I'm not worried about Dunn's strike out totals. The production you get from him when he puts the bat on the ball is worth the trade off.

I just don't think the Reds would deal him in the division unless they are convinced that Mitre and Williams would make them competitive. Can you imagine selling that trade to the fans in Cincinatti? Trading your most valuable commodity to a divisional foe for two less-than-exciting pitchers and a middle reliever? That's part of what makes trading for Dunn so hard-we can't give them an impact "name". What makes you think that this trade wouldn't make them competitive? Cincinnati doesn't have problems scoring runs. They are way ahead of us in that department. They are 2nd in the NL in scoring runs. Where they are completely lacking is in the pitching department. They are dead last in pitching in the NL, and only trail Tampa in all of baseball. That makes them worse than Colorado. Think about that. To trade Dunn still gives them Griffey, Pena, Kearns and Freel, which is a very adequate offensive outfield. Losing Dunn, but gaining 3 arms that they can immediately put in their rotation or bullpen only makes their biggest weakness stronger. It's probably too late for them to do any damage this year given their current standing, but there is no no reason for them to start building on next year. Will they be able to attract quality pitching via free agency this offseason? Doubtful. After watching the guys they signed via free agency this year implode, what would it take for them to lure someone to Cincinnati. Their best chance to grab some quality arms for their rotation will come from trading off talent. Honestly, what team is so deep in pitching that they could afford to trade off their best pitching prospects for Adam Dunn? Most teams wouldn't trade their quality pitching prospects because they know they will eventually need those guys to fill out their own rotations. Granted, there may be a team or two that could make an offer that compares to the Cubs offer, but the Cubs could add even more prospects to make it even more appealing to the Reds. Yes, to trade within the division doesn't make a whole lot of sense to Cincinnati. But, do you take less from a non division rival simply because they are a non division rival? I think you make the best deal possible regardless of what division the team plays in. If they traded Dunn to LA, LA could beat out Cincy for a wild card spot someday. The wild card allows you to trade to a team within your division a little easier, because the wild card allows two teams within the division to possibly make the playoffs. They would make the Cubs a stronger team, but I think Cincy ends up being a stronger team with the balance of quality hitting and pitching, rather than the dominating offense and extremely weak pitching they currently have. Cincy could also see that trading a player like Dunn to Chicago gives Chicago a whole new problem to deal with. And that is how to afford to keep all that talent that currently resides on the roster. Dunn could leave via free agency and Cincy would still have 3 young pitchers in their rotation. The question really is how much Cincy will want in return from Chicago. If I'm Cincy, I want pitching, pitching and more pitching. I want sinker ballers and more sinker ballers to counteract the offensive explosion that Cincinnati's ballpark provides. If I'm Chicago, I decide just how much an impact bat like Dunn's would be worth. Will it take Mitre, Williams and Welly, or will it take Mitre, Williams and Hill? Could we offer up Jerry Hairston along with the prospects to get Freel added to the deal? If I'm Hendry, this is the one deal I'm focusing all of my attention on, because a middle of the order that featured Lee, Dunn and Ramirez could be an extremely powerful middle of the order for a very long time.

With Adam Dunn in the Cubs line up, the Cubs offense becomes one of the most dangerous in baseball, period. Sergio Mitre was built to be a starting pitcher in a hitter's paradise. He throws ground balls. That has to be very appealing to the Reds. Jerome Williams is another quality arm that has seen the major leagues already. Basically, you have two ready made arms for the big league club that may or may not ever have room to fit into the Cubs rotation. If you add Wellemeyer to the trade, Cincinnati could be filling in 3/5 of their rotation for a player that they will eventually lose for next to nothing anyway. I think the only team that could even consider competing with the Cubs for Adam Dunn would be Los Angeles. They have a lot of quality arms that are close to major league ready. Make this trade and the Cubs easily take the wild card, and potentially give themselves a huge advantage to win the World Series, barring further injuries. I would do that trade without blinking an eye.