BigbadB

Nice post. That's exactly what should be happening, but I doubt anyone ever accuses Bud Selig of being a rocket scientist.

Go Bears! That is all.

I wish they would have stuck it out with Nomar another year, too, but I understand why they didn't. Yes, finding a position for him was probably a factor besides the fact the Cubs didn't really get their money's worth the 2 previous years. We couldn't have predicted Cedeno would end up being as bad as he was. I was penciling him into RF, with a move to 1st being perfect for him when Lee got hurt. Jones/Murton in left would have been a good platoon last year with Nomar in RF. I don't wish to dwell on that, however. Hendry does deserve kudos for getting Murton in that deal. I never said he didn't deserve it.

Murton was a product of the Red Sox, not the Cubs. I hope Wilken turns things around, but the Cubs farm system is currently below average. I don't understand. 10 yrs from now hopefully no one will remember where Murton was drafted. They'll remember where he made his name. Is Ryne Sandberg a Phillie? I agree with your posts most of the time but Hendry picked Murton out of a million. He does deserve a little credit on that trade. I wish someone would come out and say he seen a little something in Murton. Where's Bruce Miles when you need him? I didn't say anything about not giving him credit for the trade. The words used in the original post were that the Cubs "produced" the likes of Murton. No, they didn't. Boston drafted him and they produced him until the Cubs traded for him. The Cubs can have some credit for continuing his progression, but Boston drafted him. Prior was pretty much a finished product before the Cubs ever drafted him, but I would still say that the Cubs "produced" him, because the Cubs drafted him and he progressed through their system. Ryne Sandberg was a product of the Phillies. There's nothing wrong with recognizing a good prospect and trading for them, but you don't get to take the credit for drafting them and developing them into major leaguers. So, I do give credit to Hendry for the trade. I do not give him credit for developing him into a major leaguer. And I'm still a bit shocked that Hendry did trade for Murton, because he doesn't fit the mold of the skill set Hendry likes. Hendry likes tools guys and Murton does not fit the description. And when the season starts, we still don't know who will get the bulk of the at bats, Floyd or Murton.

I think he's finally figuring out the value of OBP, but I still don't think he embraces it. There is no way you can sit there and bat Cedeno, Bynum, Perez, Pierre, Izturis and Womack as many times as he did at the top of the order and embrace OBP.

You are correct. For some reason I thought they were both there at the same time for a short period. But, it doesn't change the fact the Dodgers took Hendry for a ride on that deal.

Murton was a product of the Red Sox, not the Cubs. I hope Wilken turns things around, but the Cubs farm system is currently below average.

I agree that there are things beyond a GM's control. But, some of those things that are now beyond the GM's control are things that could have been within the control of the GM prior to lapses in judgment. For example, last year Greg Maddux was traded for Cesar Izturis. I'm sorry, but if that's the best the Dodgers have to offer for Maddux, I'd have let Maddux finish the season as a Cub. Just how valuable was Izturis to the Dodgers? They already had Kent and Furcal in the middle infield, and had already traded for Julio Lugo. Izturis was bench fodder. Hendry didn't play hardball. He caved like an umbrella in a wind storm. Maybe Hendry couldn't have gotten LaRoche or Elbert or Kemp, but I wouldn't have just given Maddux away for nothing. Especially to the Dodgers. The Dodgers stuck it to the Cubs hard last year, and Hendry probably shouldn't have even talked to the Dodgers about Maddux. Furcal, Nomar and Milton Bradley all come to mind as guys that the Dodgers stuck it to the Cubs with last year, though Nomar was Hendry's own fault. Add Maddux to the list. Let's evaluate this Maddux deal with a few other deals that happened in the NL West. July 22- Fabian Jimenez and Joel Santo for Scott Williamson July 31- Jose Ceda for Todd Walker July 31- Maddux to the Dodgers for Cesar Izturis July 31- Sergio Pedroza and Joel Guzman to Tampa for Julio Lugo August 31- David Wells to Padres and George Kotteras to Red Sox. Wells netted the best Padres prospect in their system. Guzman was a top prospect in the Dodgers system. Jimenez, Santo and Ceda is a decent return for Williamson and Walker. Maddux was traded for the Dodgers 25th man. Sorry, I went off on a bit of a tangent with Maddux. I'm still very upset with that deal. The point is the direction of this team has been nonexistent for awhile now. I don't know if it's because Hendry trusted others to help him find direction or what the exact problem is, but to resolve the lack of direction, Hendry just blindly throws money at the problem hoping it will solve the problem.

You like to take the stance that none of the players currently on the Cubs were players that the Cubs might have had a chance to sign or trade for. As if the only deals Hendry makes are the only deals he had any chance to make. That's fine if you think along those lines, but I certainly don't. While you can give your list of reasons for each player I list that could have been Cubs, I'm just using examples. My examples of what would have improved the Cubs are just about endless. I could go back a few years and include Carlos Beltran, Vladmir Guerrero, Miguel Tejada when they were free agents themselves. I'm not the one who was standing at a podium announcing to the world that I was going to bring a World Series to the north side of Chicago. Jim Hendry did that. If he can be so bold to make that prediction, then he better back up his words with moves that will get the team there. Soriano was a pretty good score. Outside of Soriano, the moves he made were pretty generic. I'll give him credit for re-signing Aramis as well, just so you don't think I'm all gloom and doom. The lack of direction is quite real. The farm system has gone from being one of the best in the league to below average. The team itself has gone from 1st to worst. This is also very real. But, the thing that really makes me disrespect anything you have to say about this is when you sit there and tell me or someone else that this isn't fantasy baseball. What, do you think I'm some little kid who is watching baseball for the first time? I'm 43 years old and have been watching Cub baseball religiously since 1971. Our opinions don't have to agree to have a mature and respectful debate. You don't have to drag insults into it to make your point. If the team didn't have the resources to go out and build a World Series team, maybe THEY shouldn't have been standing in front of a podium announcing to the world they would go out and get the players necessary to win. The team, as it is currently constructed, isn't any better than some of the other teams in the NL. You might feel that Cesar Izturis (a guy who has played a total of less than a season of baseball over the last two years and whose numbers have plummeted) is the SS that can take us to the promised land, but I don't. You might feel that Greg Maddux for Cesar Izturis was a good trade. Personally, I think we got better for Todd Walker. The problems of Jim Hendry extend beyond what he did this offseason. He had problems in previous seasons as well. When you compound the problems from year to year, the end product will suffer, which is exactly what we are seeing now. Would Miguel Tejada, Vladmir Guerrero or Carlos Beltran have turned down 8/136? Probably not. Each is either a better overall player than Soriano, or performs above and beyond their position of need. Agree or disagree. But, please leave the "this isn't fantasy baseball" crap out of your argument to keep this a respectful debate. I respect your opinion even though I don't agree with it.

I think Hendry might have had direction at one time. It looked like he had direction last year when he rolled out the red carpet to Rafael Furcal. Unfortunately, Hendry didn't have a back up plan. When Furcal went somewhere else, Hendry just threw money at whatever he could find. Neifi, Rusch, Jones, etc... It's great that the higher ups have opened up the wallets for Hendry to go out and build a winner. It's not too great when the guy with the money doesn't know how to spend it wisely.

I'm not so sure you can hurt the farm system anymore than it already is. Zero position players in the last how many years? Okay, Pie and Patterson are close. But, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Those two guys lack some of the same skills that many other Cub prospects lacked and never reached stardom. The Cubs have been successful developing pitching. But, they don't value it like they should. 3 pitching prospects for a no-hit one year wonder. Abuse the guys you have to the point they need surgery. If the Cubs are just going to run pitching prospects into the ground and not focus at all on developing position talent, then forget the farm system, because it really can't be hurt much more. This year, they have just as many pitching talents as they had last year, yet they managed to deal off a bunch and still have new guys step up. The same will happen this year when they take the 3rd overall pick and get one of the first sandwich picks. It will be another good offseason as far as picking up new pitching talent. But, it's win now time in the big leagues. Why spend 120m to build a 2nd place team when you can spend 140m for a 1st place team? Why only go half way? Why save a prospect who can't help you win now if it means the difference between 2nd place and 1st? Obviously, they still have to play the games. But, a stronger and better team has a better chance of winning. We all know that. Ichiro or A-Rod or Tejada or Miguel Cabrera, etc... made this team a 1st place team. 1st place in Iowa just doesn't mean squat.

20/20 hindsight? Are you kidding me? It was Tim that suggested Daisuke. I wanted Schmidt. I would have been fine with Daisuke, but I wanted Schmidt, Drew, Lugo and whatever pieces and parts Hendry could get. There is nothing hindsight about what I wanted going into the offseason. I think Hendry did alright. However, I'm not sure if he did enough. He spent money like crazy. But, spending money like crazy isn't going to win you a World Series. Spending money on needs while focusing on the direction of the club is what builds a winner. This team has no direction. None. They spent 136m for an outfielder and they have no idea where he's going to play. They spent how much on Marquis, and there is no guarantee he'll be better than the 8th or 9th best rotation option in 2007. They haven't extended the most important player to this team, Carlos Zambrano. They really gambled with DeRosa. He's been strictly a super sub, which would have been a great thing for him in Chicago, but Hendry gave him starter money and a starting job. I hope it works, but it's quite a gamble. He doesn't have a clue what to do with Jacque Jones. Great, they went out and spent a bunch of money. But, they didn't go out and spend it with any direction.

Which is my point, in a nutshell. I was clamoring for Schmidt. Daisuke would have been good, too. For the money they spent this offseason, it seems like they could have done much more. And let's talk about Boston. They not only got Daisuke, Drew and Lugo (3 guys I wanted real bad), but they are still in talks with Colorado to go get Helton. Helton might be overkill. Boston should go out and win the division this year without Helton. However, Helton would put them clearly over the top. That, to me, says "we are going to do everything in our power to get this team to the World Series". That's exactly what Hendry should have been doing. Forget this outfield feud already of who should play where. The gameplan should have been to recognize your needs and go get them. The biggest need was at SS. Tejada and A-Rod were available for the right price. It's actually a sad state when you pay all this money out and you don't even know where some of these guys fit into the grand scheme. Will Soriano play CF or RF. Will Marquis be a #2 or the #5 or in the pen. Will Floyd be the highest paid bench guy in history, or will a superior Murton be wasted away on the bench once again for a breaking down ballplayer trying to earn a big salary? The direction of this organization is lacking. Direction is what they needed this offseason, and I don't think they accomplished it. What I think they did was just throw a bunch of money out there and see what stuck. They can win with this team, but how much can they win?

I believe what you are saying, Bruce. However, the disappointment I'm feeling about this offseason is that upper management has clearly stated they are doing everything they can do go out and win it all. I think Hendry has done a decent job this offseason, but to go out and win it all, I don't feel like he's done enough. I also realize that the market exploded. However, that should not change the gameplan. If you stand up in front of the fans and scream "we are going to get this team to the World Series, by George, you better do it. It seems to me as though the only way the Cubs reach the promised land is if Prior has a healthy and productive year. Basically, they are still counting on him. As assembled, this team could go out and win the division. "Could" being the key word. I can't put "should" in there. If they really want to go out there and get the Cubs fans a World Series, they should make the moves that they can then say "should" be a shoe in to win their own division and the league. Nice efforts by Hendry this offseason, but I don't think he meant it when he said they were going to do everything they could to build a winner. They threw a lot of money around, some good, some bad, but the finished product leaves a lot to be desired. And, IMO, it still requires Prior to be healthy, something they said they wouldn't count on or expect this year. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when you say you are going to do something, get out there and do it. Don't half-ass it. If you are Picasso, don't put the finishing touches on your masterpiece with finger paint.

My keeper list added up to less than 2500 based on the Excel spreadsheet Juan sent out. :wink:

I hope the 1st 4 starters are Zambrano, Prior, Hill and Lilly. Prior's health makes that quite a stretch, however.

i haven't looked at the spreadsheet, but the projections still have guys like scott olsen outscoring pujols. did we really bump pitching points up that much? If that's the case, I'm deeply in love with my keeper list.

I'm usually outside smoking a chain of cigarettes (no smoking bars in California) during the halftime show, so that I have my fill and don't miss the important parts of the actual game. Not sure how, but I was witness to Janet's exposure. Of course, (and maybe this belongs in a different forum, but I always liked Janet.

Myself, I'd prefer LF: Cabrera CF: Beltran RF: Vlad :D No bench guys? I think you need more depth. 8-)

It's hard to be a defensive god from injured reserve. Barmes was bad last year, and his splits on the road in 2005 were pretty pathetic. If Theriot can handle the position, we have the answer in-house. I'd just like to see someone else outside of Izturis/Cedeno at SS. Cedeno should spend the whole year at AAA.

You mean the Rock em Sock em Robots tournament is cancelled?!? :wall: How about this: The Lions and the Raiders play 7 on 7 flag football. Winner gets the #1 draft pick. What if the game ended in a tie?

That's very possible.

And my point was missed. The Cardinals filled a brand new stadium all year (higher ticket prices?) and won a World Series. What have they done this offseason to reward the fans? Preston Wilson wouldn't cut it for me.

The Cubs are in a win now frame of mind. They've made that very clear since the offseason began. Getting Ichiro, even if for only one year, is a win now move. You don't spend the kind of money that Hendry spent and settle for 2nd or 3rd in the division. Unfortunately, the moves Hendry has made to this point might not be much better than 2nd or 3rd. Getting Ichiro, IMO, changes that to a very likely division championship, and potentially beyond. It also appears that Hendry is going to do everything in his power to trade Jones, since Jones really wants out. I'm opposed to a trade just to trade him. But, if the trade brings back something better, I have no qualms. I'd still like to see one other move made for a SS. A reliever for Clint Barmes might be a possibility. Not only is Cesar injury prone, but his bat may never rebound to his past production, which really wasn't anything to brag about. There is a question about Theriot's abilities at SS, and Cedeno needs to spend the year in AAA. The money Hendry has spent this offseason can't be undone. At this point, you do what is necessary to finish the job. Would I care about a prospect that had to be moved in a trade if this deal meant a World Series victory? Probably not. I don't agree with how Hendry went about rebuilding this team, but he could have done a lot worse. Whoever ends up being the PTBNL will likely not be as good as they guy the Cubs land in the June draft, therefore, I really think this deal needs to get done.

Not always. The Aramis trade had a PTBNL that was a choice between Bobby Hill, Steve Smyth and Francis Beltran, and I believe all 3 of those guys were on the 40 man roster at the time.