wrigley23

for those that dig in their heels & discount the very obvious signs, I'll let you continue to believe in Santa. These are the same people who don't watch the 10:00 news because it is "so negative".

You've never seen me piping up about the Cub being a strong offensive team. I did say they were the best in the division although we've discovered that is like being given the pork queen title at the county fair. It is a great honor...in your county for what that's worth. For those that claim it makes more sense to put your best hitters at the top. Oh really? Is that why Arod, Pujols, Wright, Braun, etc hit 3rd? On base % remains one of the leading indicators of a successful leadoff hitter. If you scan around baseball, it is certainly far more the rule than the exception. Also, while I do think it is a problem, my point was more that it is an "issue"/"discussion point" just as it follows the thread title...you see it frequently brought up by writers in not only the Chicago media but in the media itself. Like I said a few mo's ago, I speak to baseball scouts in Arizona each spring & have also discussed this w/ minor league coaches from the Cub organization. It is well known that many disagree w/ hit batting slot & feel it is only done by Lou as a coddling measure...same goes for his late inning presence in left. If you don't like hearing about it, put your head back into the sand.

also, don't you find it quite ironic that just after the media finally broke silence that these guys either suddenly retired or saw their production drop dramatically? Was this all just a coinky-dink?

so you guys that think Slammy didn't inject, you think it's normal for your melon to nearly double in size in just a few yrs time? How many other people do you know that this happens to?

In the context it was raised...yes. Soriano leading off is an issue because so many bring it up all the time. I hear it constantly in the media & by analysts...so yes. Finishing first in runs is here nor there as you are not playing your watered down division in the playoffs. Let's flip it around. The Cubs have been dead last in runs scored the last two years in the playoffs. How's that?

it doesn't take a marine biologist to figure out who the 'roid users were. The biggest proof is in the before & after photos. Head sizes do not change that drastically unless you juice. These are the biggest implicators of all.

For once, others are stepping up & pointing out the other side of the argument so I choose not to pile on. What I find interesting though is the fact that the Soriano leading off issue comes up every year, multiple times/yr & by so many people including a large number of baseball analysts & those in the media. I wonder why that is? Surely they must be all wrong (sarcasm inserted). Lou hits him leadoff as he feels he has to in order to keep the peace with him. Same w/ keeping him in the game in left despite his costly late inning defense. It infuriates many fans as a result. Time is running out on this nucleus of a team. Let's see if the mighty Milton Bradley (held together physically/mentally) by a string is the 101-yr answer. After several downgrades/cost cutting moves, he was the only net addition. Count me as a non-believer in all of this fine mess.

LoDuca's name came up prevalently in the Mitchell Report. My recollection is that he was in the "stuff" w/ Gagne.

with a bat or two, the Giants would be salty in that division. Their pitching is pretty damn good.

Not saying I agree w/ it, but I think the reason DeRo was moved was 3-fold: he was at the peak of his value, he swings w/ the wrong hand & JH thought Bradley could slip away if he didn't move money around & strike while iron was hot. Just my tea leaves...

you cannot argue w/ Dex as he's never wrong...just ask him.

Theo is one of those Billy Beane guys in that he puts a premium on OBP & plate discipline...neither of which Soriano has any clue of. I doubt very much they have the least bit of interest in him. He is also paid way over his value. Settle in folks, as bad as his salary looks now, wait for another 2-3 yrs when there are 3-4 left. This will make Sammy's salary his last couple of yrs look like chump change.

you do it every time you post. I was not responding so much as to your last post but nearly all of your posts in general...not just to me but to everyone. the first time someone makes an opinion opposite of yours you start poking at them personally. I call you on it, let it go for a while & then I end up calling you on it after it builds up for a while which is what happened here. We all have our own opinions & should be able to express them without the personal garbage. I'm quite confident I'm not the only one that is very tired of your personal vents.

why are you so hateful all of the time? Were you beaten as a child or are you still being beaten? Why can't we come onto the message board & state our opinions without all of the biting comments all of the time? This is a message board talking about games...not financial planning, teaching or engineering. Is it really worth the anger? I disagree w/ nearly everything that you ever say, but it doesn't make either one of us right. The only thing wrong is when someone makes it personal against the other. At the end of the day, this is no more important than taking out the garbage. To be a message board hero/thread winner is the equivalent of winning a grade school straw pole popularity contest.

make fun of murph all you want but at least he talks Cubs & baseball. The rest of the hacks on there talk Bulls, Bears, etc. Murph is a diehard baseball & Cub fan & there is not much better than talking hot stove baseball this time of year.

neither can Soriano. What's your point?

I'm not sure about you but i have a real job, kids, a life...etc...all those things that apparently you do not. You seem to have time to look up all of this & hash/re-hash all of the angles. You chime in on every post on this forum. I'm simply not going to play message board hero & respond to this garbage. I have my opinion & you have yours. I'm very secure in mine. If you are in yours, knock yourself out. i can assure you, I have much more to worry about than this.

leadoff hitter isn't important. says who? You? sorry. I disagree. Why do teams trade for them? Why do teams tend to put their highest obp/speed guys at the top? Are they all wrong? Why was Hendry trying to trade for Roberts so much last year? Because he wanted Soriano's whiffing dropped down in the order where it was easier hidden...that's why. A leadoff hitter not only starts each & every game but they also hit behind the pitcher & pitchers are many times the last out of an inning. It is desirable for a leadoff hitter to take pitches to work the pitcher, give their teammates a better read on the pitcher, take a walk if possible to drive up pitch count, etc. They have to be able to hit from behind in the count & have a good eye at the plate. Soriano possesses none of this. He hits from the leadoff position the way he would if he was in the middle of the lineup & that is selfish & against what the team needs him to do. Why do you think so much is made in the media of moving soriano out of the leadoff spot? It's crystal clear to a lot of people that follow baseball for a living. I've posted this before but I spoke w/ several scouts last year during spring training that said it was a laugher around the league how the Cubs coddle one Alfonso Soriano by allowing him to hit out of position & play the OF in the late innings. The prevailing opinion is it is due to his fragile psyche. It is odd that he is treated this way as it sounds a lot like the Sosa treatment that hurt the Cubs late in his career. The team is never above one player. When it is treated as such...then it becomes problematic. He has been one of the worst postseason players in the history of MLB. I, for one, am damn sick of watching the coddling.

when you are 0-9 in the playoffs (which is what ultimately counts) then...yes...i would look at the playoff results & disregard the regular season. Please go back & read the posts that outline why the regular season is irrelevant when you get rick rolled in the playoffs against real teams that are not in your division. The stats & games were overstated when you consider the number of creampuff games in the nl central the last several years.

ok...i'll bite. Try this one. Does the Cub offense lead the league in runs in the postseason the last three appearances? No..in fact, they are the worse...by far. Flawed offense or just 9 bad days in a row. Tough one.

I never said that loudmouth. Quit putting words into my mouth. You remind me of the person that tries to yell over everyone else talking & if successful, thinks your point has been proven. if you want to continue to put your coconut into the proverbial sand & say that the Cubs just happened to have 9 straight "off days" over a 3-yr playoff period, then knock yourself out. I happen to believe the offense is/was flawed. Hendry/Piniella seem hell bent on adding a left hitter in the middle & i've heard on numerous occasions that the team needs more speed/athleticism. That doesn't sound to me like a mgr/gm that they just had 9 bad days in a row in the playoffs.

why? because you said so or because he was one of the leaders in the league in OBP? And don't give me that garbage that leading off the game & (likely quite a few more times due to the fact that the pitcher makes the last out of the inning more frequently than not) an inning is overrated. I would far prefer to lead off an inning w/ a walk or single than a whiff.

what you are not getting through your thick message board head is we don't play Pittsburgh, Houston or St Louis in the playoffs. The Cubs play real teams in the playoffs. Soriano & co feast on poor pitchers & when they go up against better pitching they wilt like a flower. Whether St Louis, Houston, etc get better or worse...who cares? The Cubs need to find ways to get better than...Philly & the Dodger. Gee, what a concept. This is the problem w/ the Bears. They need to get better than Pittsburgh & Indianapolis, etc...not the Vikings or the Packers. The bar is way too low for some of you. In regards to Piniella saying the Cubs need more speed/athleticism & a left bat..he did not come out & say directly that this is why they failed in the playoffs, but he said that is what is needed going into '09. I'm not a rocket scientist, but after getting swept two yrs in a row, I'm reading between the lines. Hendy has made many mistakes. Signing Prior over & over, giving out no trades like they are going out of style, playing w/ monopoly money on overhyped/priced free agents...the only moves he has made that have turned to gold are when the other team is dumping payroll that he picks up. He is a tireless worker, but does not seem to be a smart one. Lou does know more than all of us put together. He made numerous statements 3 yrs ago that the team's parts did not fit well together...that falls upon Hendry & still does to this day. Is this team good enough to win the division again? Yes, but it has went the other direction in terms of beating the best in the NL. The AL has gotten significantly better w/ the Yankee shopping. It is the Cubs reaction to the Yanks, Phils & Dodgers that bears watching...not what St Louis may or may not be doing.

embarassing for who? You? Lou Piniella is the one who said the offense needed help through more athleticism/speed & a lefty bat. He has forgotten more about baseball this offseason than you have ever known. He makes millions of dollars a year while you post on a message board like we all do. Winning the division is irrelevant. They did that last year. Those in the "just had six bad days over two yrs" are naive. The "try harder" approach does not work. If this was a young team, you might have a lame angle at least but this is a veteran team only getting a year older. The offense has proven in the playoffs two yrs in a row that it is flawed. It needs fixed or it may be 0-9. Jim Hendry's piss poor, long-term contract, no trade, wreckless spending has caught up. Better find a hedge team for '09 if this is it.

In case you haven't noticed, this team is veteran & now a year older. It has not been 100 yrs since the last division title so winning the division doesn't do a hell of a lot other than set things up for another flop. This team is good enough to win the division but that's it. It was proven last year & the nail was hammered flush this year. This team has went backwards this offseason through subtraction & age. I was not in the Peavy camp, but if he could have been had, by all means. With him or without him, he wasn't going to help the lack of athleticism/speed in the lineup or the lack of a middle order power hitter. Without at least one of the two to infuse into the offense, you could be looking at 0-9 in the postseason next October. The irony is that w/ cost cutting of other teams as well as salaries dropping in large part, this would have been the year to throttle down. Oh well.