RynoRules

Why don't we ask the Mets to give us Cameron ($6M), Floyd ($6.5M) and Glavine ($9.5M) in a pure salary dump move for some prospects? With the $22M they save here, and the $15M freed up with Piazza as free agent, the Mets can trade for Mannys' $20M and Delgado's $16M. We fill the needs for CF, RF and a >200IP/<4.00ERA SP. And, all 3 guys we get are free agents after 2006. That's a good thought. Only trouble is that, unless CPatt were out of the picture, would it give Dusty an excuse to bench Murton?

Good to see Angel pitching well (at least one outing, any way). Does anyone think he has any trade value whatsoever at this point? EDIT: And welcome to the Forum, Peoria!

What he said. Please, if no Giles, please bring us some Dunn or Ramirez, Mr. Hendry.

Cameron: http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/camermi01.shtml "Ugh". Flolyd: http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/floydcl01.shtml Far less "ugh", IMO.

That makes a lot of sense and is a good extension of initial point, which was that Pie should only be dealt for a true impact, corner OF. And I agreed w/ Kess - woh. :wink:

Cubs and Sox had similar issues in RF last offseason. Here's an interesting comparison: Dye: http://www.baseballreference.com/d/dyeje01.shtml Burnitz: http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/burnije01.shtml Dye was better, but not a ton better. Cubs almost certainly had a shot at getting him, and its worth noting that Dye is 5 years younger.

:lol: awesome. That's just classic! Good for her. Now let Biggio have 5 minutes alone with him. A bit of an attitude adjustment.

A fatter payroll, sweet lounge chairs, and personal entertainment systems in every locker is not what we need.

What throws fuel on the fire of any rumor these days *cough*dustytothedodgers*cough**hack**cough* is that MLB frowns upon teams announcing much of anything during post-season play. I mean, they COULD have agreed to huge mega deals and they just can't SAY anything because of pesky Selig. Right?!?! I think that's accurate. We've heard it several times before. If the deal for Giles is done, we won't know until the day after tomorrow. :wink:

Exactly - With an OF of Dunn-Murton-Pierre plus an IF of Ramirez, Lee, Barrett, and Nomar / Walker / Cedeno / ? , the team's overall offensive performance is likely to be better than the 03' team when you consider who was in the IF that year (particularly C and 1B).

I'm not up on what the Reds have but I thought they had a gluten of OF's and needed pitching. Probably the case, but my point is would you be willing to deal Pie as part of a deal for Dunn that includes giving up at least one good pitching prospect, like a Nolasco.

:pig:

I think the only way it makes sense to give up CPatt and Hill to get Pierre is if Pie is the centerpiece of a deal for someone like Adam Dunn. Thus, you have an OF of Pierre, Dunn and Murton, which I could definitely live with. Could you? Would you deal Pie to get Dunn, assuming the validity of the Pierre deal?

Yeah, I've talked to many SD fans here about the possibility of the Cubs making a big offer for Giles, and they all make the same claim....They wouldn't miss him. What they seem to think in San Diego is that it is just some fluke that Giles, Klesko and Nevin lost power moving to Petco. It's not a fluke. Whatever power hitter they get is going to show a decrease in power, and it's not because of steroids. Well, if Giles is dumb enough to take such a huge paycut to stay and play in a park that will hurt his HOF chances, meanwhile playing for an owner that cares more about what's going on around the park (shopping centers, condos, hotels, etc...) than what is going on inside the park (besides the sold out games), so be it. Cliff Floyd, here we come. Ok, he's good, but once and foer all, he's no where near an HOFer. I know that most of us wanted him, but guys, lets be serious here: he's a very nice player who would have been a very good fit in our OF. That said, it ain't over till its over. And I have suspected all along that JH wasn't counting on getting him. I mean, if we al knew it would take more than the usual dollars to pry him away from the Coast, then it stands to reason that getting him at all was, at best, not likely. How about reading the whole thread before you pick a comment to tear apart? I already retracted my comment with the fact he started too late, and either played for bad teams or played in bad hitters parks. I don't think I "tore apart" your comment and I also don't think you completely retracted it. That said, it was not intended as insult towards you, only to remind everyone that whether we get Giles or not, its not necessarily the end of the world. Moreover, we all knew that it was a long-shot, and many amongst us were mainly concerned that he should not go to St Louis. Well, at least he doe snot appear to be going there. However, as someone else pointed out, its not yet official, so you never know.

Yeah, I've talked to many SD fans here about the possibility of the Cubs making a big offer for Giles, and they all make the same claim....They wouldn't miss him. What they seem to think in San Diego is that it is just some fluke that Giles, Klesko and Nevin lost power moving to Petco. It's not a fluke. Whatever power hitter they get is going to show a decrease in power, and it's not because of steroids. Well, if Giles is dumb enough to take such a huge paycut to stay and play in a park that will hurt his HOF chances, meanwhile playing for an owner that cares more about what's going on around the park (shopping centers, condos, hotels, etc...) than what is going on inside the park (besides the sold out games), so be it. Cliff Floyd, here we come. Ok, he's good, but once and foer all, he's no where near an HOFer. I know that most of us wanted him, but guys, lets be serious here: he's a very nice player who would have been a very good fit in our OF. That said, it ain't over till its over. And I have suspected all along that JH wasn't counting on getting him. I mean, if we al knew it would take more than the usual dollars to pry him away from the Coast, then it stands to reason that getting him at all was, at best, not likely.

In other words, I already made this deal, tell me what you think. I traded: Randy Moss Tatum Bell I received: Jimmy Smith LaMont Jordan Keep these factors in mind: 1) my team is 2-4, 3 games back of first, two out of the playoffs. 2) Touchdowns are huge in my league. 3) Moss has several ailments and is not playing this week 4) Jordan's overall stats are not impressive, but b/c of the TD factor, he is a top 5-7 fantasy back right now.

I noticed you left Joe McCarthy off your list, but its like I always say, never let the facts get in the way of a good argument. :wink:

Please provide support for Davey Johnson and Larry Dierker, cause I just don't see it. To clarify: I see Johnson, just based on his track record, but Dierker?

Certainly wouldn't hurt the Cubs chances.

The Giants had a good offense and good pitching in 2002. Top 3 in AVG, top 3 in HR's, top 3 in OBP, top 3 in walks, top 3 in runs, etc.... Actually, they were better than top 3 in many of those. Did not hit particularly well? Top 3 is a good thing. San Fran was second in the league in ERA. They gave up the least amount of home runs that year. They gave up the third least walks. Why Dusty's Giants teams were able to do all those things, but the philosophy is completely different in Chicago is beyond me. The Cubs once again led the league in HR's that year. All those home runs led to an 11th place finish in runs scored. I think if you look carefully you'll see that Bonds was the sole reason their team OBP was so high. Only two other guys had OBPs over .333, if memory serves. And the starting pitching was mediocre. The team ERA was based in large part on the 'pen.

Since few seem up to dealing with how they felt about Baker at the time he was hired, I'll jump in: I loved him and was psyched. I thought he could forever change the organizations losing culture and the team and its fans would expect to win. And after 03' and the following offseason acquisitions, I figured we were well on our way. The rest is history. ](*,) As far as Piniella goes - and I have said this before on this bd - I don't undrerstand the problem most of you have with him. He is demanding of his players - big friggin' deal. Other than in the baseball cespool of TB, all he has done is win, including a WS. Don't judge him by the choices he made during his time with the D-Rays. If you read between the lines, you'll see that he and LaMar were engaged in p*ssing contest. Not mature, I know, but I like teh fact that he doesn't take people's stuff, especially a guy like LaMar, who was as bad as any GM in the game.

What opportunity? Nobody had the opportunity to get Mazzone out of Atlanta except his lifelong friend. Quit blaming Hendry for options that aren't available. Exactly. Mazzone wasn't leaving Atlanta except to work with his friend in Baltimore. His statements now and in the past make that perfectly clear. There are plenty of things to criticize Hendry on; this isn't one of them. It's ridiculous to even make the assertions here. we missed the opportunity to make a sales pitch (like the Yankees did). you never know what happens until you throw your hat in the ring. It's ridiculous to assume we don't have a chance without taking one. It would have cost us nothing to try. Wrong. We tick off Rothschild and, if he leaves, we have to find a pitching coach willing to take the position with a lame duck manager. The yanks are in a completely different position since they do not have a pitching coach. Hendry was wise to look before he leaped. That's partially true - they may have a lame-duck manager themselves, and their environment is twice as toxic as the Cubs, at least at this point/

Why do I have some small amount of faith left in Dusty? His 2002 Giants did not hit particularly well, nor did the picth particularly well, yet they came within a few outs of winning the Series that year: http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SFG/2002.shtml One other note: that's 8-0-0, baby. If only some of the Cubs' OPS were so high.

Not sure if he is, but let me strat by saying that I love these debates. My guess is that his nos. will be obscured by the fact that his best years were at Coors and played during the steroid era. I'm not indicting him in that regard, just pointing it out.

If Griffey is healthy, he's worth as much as Giles, IMO. I admit, however, that this is a big "if".