RynoRules

Largely, but there are a few holding out positivity. A few of us (me, jjgman, XZero, ConstableRabbit and a few others) are holding to the "hate the money, love the move anyway" opinion. co-sign First time since Hawk in 87' that we have signed one of the three or four best available FAs. I just hope Jim saves some cash for midseason deals - we are going to need pitching, IMO.

While I do like Peter, if he says we are no longer in the Lugo derby, I believe that we actually are.

And the fact his numbers are even in the same ballpark as Soriano's while he'd be lucky to get a contract at all doesn't scare you? Selectivity of numbers used again. He has no real position, doesn't produce runs, can't run but whatever. I think people have hired him because of potential and dumped him because he doesn't really produce. When can we expect you to stop bringing up Walker for no reason? 2008? 2009? Let me know so I can circle the date on my calendar. Or maybe we can just fully establish the Todd Walker scale and compare every potential target for years to come against your questionable impressions of Walker's production. Tim may have some room on the front page for it. And when can we expect you (and others) to understand that a contract, by definition, includes two parties, and accordingly, both must agree to it: How can you possibly know all of this? You have no evidence to support it - no inside source; your suppositions are enormous. They are also contradictory in some sense: You argue that Hendry got lucky in that he desperately raised his offer by a petty 3 mill at the 11th hour. Had ARam taken the open mkt route, he's of received an additional $20-$30 and probably an extra year on the deal. So you believe that ARam rejected the original offer, but when Hendry offered an extra couple of mill he said to himself, "W'oh! For an extra three mill forget that extra 20-30 mill I could earn if go out on the open mkt!" That's not how this sort of thing works, yet you profess to understand it as though you were in the room. I have savaged Hendry for sometime now, including and most recently on the DeRosa deal, but you and others kill him for his negotiations and overpaying FAs without really knowing the market, who the parties are, and by reading into innocuous comments made at run of the mill press conferences. No one knows what happens in a negotation other than those who were present. I know this b/c negotiation is a major part of what I do for a living. I agree this was a steep price to pay for Soriano, and the contract relative to his production makes me nervous. But I'd rather see this happen than what has not happened over the past two offseasons. If you want to kill Hendry, by all means go ahead. But please stop acting like you know you could have negotiated a better contract even though you know maybe 10% of the info relevant to doing so.

Brilliant to say adios to Juan - glad they resisted the temptation there. What about our Manny and Drew chances? Lugo? Have you heard anything?

you just blew my mind Izturis + Pie for Manny? Were you referring to my post? If so, and I have discussed this several times in other threads, a Manny trade is contingent on the Sox signing Drew and wanting added payroll flexibility. If so, assuming Manny's salary is a big chip in the baragain. Add a defensive minded starting SS (Epstein loves these) and you may have a deal. i might have ripped off the deal from you. but the thought just now occured to me that pie is now expendable (assuming soriano plays center), and we can get manny for cheap with just 2 players. No prob - I totally agree. I would allow Drew to sign with Boston and be first in line to make a deal with Manny. We have exactly the chips they need, assuming JH will eat the vast majority of the contract.

You were saying?

you just blew my mind Izturis + Pie for Manny? Were you referring to my post? If so, and I have discussed this several times in other threads, a Manny trade is contingent on the Sox signing Drew and wanting added payroll flexibility. If so, assuming Manny's salary is a big chip in the baragain. Add a defensive minded starting SS (Epstein loves these) and you may have a deal.

Assuming this does not cripple our ability to make further additions to a weak starting staff and to add one more bat, color me impressed with JH's decisevness and agressive approach thus far. The way he has approached this lends credence to the theory that MacPhail handcuffed him during past offseasons. I am not wild about 8 yrs, but Soriano's next 4-5 years ought to be very good. With any luck, the last two are mutual options. Is it completely out of the question that we can ink Lugo and deal Izturis and Murt in a pckg for Manny? How does this look?: Lugo Soriano Lee Manny ARam Barrett Jones DeRosa =P~ :pig:

That's not very difficult to do, but you're right. I don't want Alou back though, and not b/c he is old. I got sick of his baserunning gaffes and bonehead LF play, though the man still can turn on a fastball like nobody's business.

Me thinks Hendry will be far more cautious before dealing with the Fish again.

If the Sox ink Drew I really do not think we will have to give up significant players in order to get Manny. Epstein value payroll flexability and just spent 50 mill for the privilege of speaking to the Japanese guy. This would be a classic salary dump.

umm...Its a joke. I have quite a few friends who are Sox fans and even they call him Judy. A joke that ranks up there with some of the other I have seen.

Seriously, I really want to know: How old are you?

Much as I hate to say it, I completely agree with Rosenthal. I want Manny in LF in the worst way.

I don't agree that Westbrook is an avg starter: http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/westbja01.shtml

Dunno, but I would do Murton for Westbrook straight up, especially if we ink Soriano and Drew as rumored.

Gee, what a surprise. http://home.indy.rr.com/themartinfamily/goldmember_fat_bastard.jpg "I'M DEAD SEX-AY!"

If the deal is Veal or Gallagher, Pie, and one of Marshall/Mateo/Marmal/Ryu/Guzman, sign me up. I dunno if I'd include both Veal and Gallagher. If I am going to assume Manny's contract and give up my three best prospects, I'd want something additional in return or at least want the Sox to assume responsibility for 33-40% of the remaining money on Manny's deal.

I'd be happier if Hendry went out and got impact difference making starters, and put the utility/bullpen on the backburner. Agreed.

Manny gives you that too, plus he has a career OPS of over 1.1. I really don't get why anyone would want Drew over Manny, but that's just me.

I'd be happy having Lamb or Nevin on the bench at the right price. I'd be even happier if we had both - good sock from both sides of the plate can't be a bad thing.

I agree. It's one of the "change of scenery" type trades. I really don't know how it sets the Cubs up to deal Eyre? :?:

I really need you to stop calling names. It is childish and adds nothing to the credibility of you or nsbb.com Its simple enough to say that Hendry has dropped the ball if the rumor is true, though I really wonder whether someone like Drew would sign this early. If he does it makes me think he never listened to anyone other than Theo.

Far and away the best in the NL Central. Thanks - I just think that scenario is the most "do-able". With DeRosa already on bd, you don't have to give a bloated contract to guys whose history of production do not warrant it (Soriano, Lee, and, in some circles, Drew) in order to make it happen. I would think Lugo is seeking 4 yrs and 24 mill, or thereabouts. Manny has about 40 some-odd mill and 3 yrs left on his deal (I think), and we would probably have to tack on more year and give up low-level prospects (after all, we are assuming his entire contract) in order to make the deal work. I am fine with that. Manny probably has 3 years of high-level productivity left. If the need arises you can trade him to an AL team to DH for the last year of his contract.

Love it, but a slightly more realistic scenario might be: 1. Lugo 2. Murt 3. Manny 4. Lee 5. ARam 6. Barrett 7. Jacque Jones 8. DeRosa I could live with that. Not great, but probably a good start.