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  • How Would the 2024 Chicago Cubs Line Up if the Season Started Monday?


    Matt Trueblood

    As we turn our attention toward an offseason chock-full of tough decisions, let's do a little exercise to clarify the areas of need and uncertainty for the 2024 Chicago Cubs.

    Image courtesy of © Benny Sieu-USA TODAY Sports

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    It's tempting to try to skip ahead, at this time of year. After the bitter disappointment of the Cubs' late-season collapse, the fan's impulse is to chase big names and start vicariously spending Tom Ricketts's ill-gotten money. That's a natural and sufficiently noble exercise, but it won't take you anywhere until you gain some clarity on what the Cubs have for 2024. Once we can say that with some confidence, we can better assess what they still need.

    Here's the most plausible Opening Day lineup I can cobble together for next year's Cubs, making as few assumptions and adopting as few bold positions as possible. These are the incumbents at each of these positions, and in each of these lineup spots.

    1. Pete Crow-Armstrong - CF
    2. Nico Hoerner - 2B
    3. Ian Happ - LF
    4. Seiya Suzuki - RF
    5. Dansby Swanson - SS
    6. Christopher Morel - DH
    7. Matt Mervis - 1B
    8. Yan Gomes - C
    9. Nick Madrigal - 3B

    Again, there are a thousand ways to quibble with this, and it's not meant as a concrete projection of anything. It just gets us started. For instance: Can the Cubs possibly entrust Crow-Armstrong with a big-league job next spring, after he looked so overmatched and overwhelmed in his unhelpful September audition with the big-league team? It seems unfathomable that he would be batting first, at least. That, immediately, means that the team needs a hitter who slots comfortably into the top four of their lineup, pushing Crow-Armstrong down to ninth, where his defense can carry the rest of his profile.

    Once you slide Crow-Armstrong down there, you can see how thin the rest of the bottom half of the unit is. Gomes is extremely likely to take a major step backward at the plate next season, given his age, his track record, and the inescapable vicissitudes of the catcher position. Madrigal's full-season batting line (.263/.311/.352) probably undersells his true talent a bit, and his contact skills and speed are valuable at the very bottom of the lineup, but you can't afford to prioritize defense at the expense of offense at this many spots, even to round out the batting order.

    Some teams who have enjoyed a great deal of success recently (like the 2022 Astros and Yankees, or the 2023 Diamondbacks and Brewers) have had top-heavy lineups and glove-only guys to complete an excellent overall defense. Those teams each had at least one or two elite hitters in the heart of their order, though, and that caliber of bat is missing from the Cubs' right now. The X factor, in that regard, is Seiya Suzuki, who hit .350/.406/.667 over the final two months of the campaign. He can't be that good over a full season. If he can be anything akin to that, though, it does slightly change the equation.

    At the moment, the bench would figure to consist of:

    This group answers a couple of the questions about the projected lineup, but urges forward a couple of the lurking ones there, too. It sure doesn't seem like bringing back both Mastrobuoni and Madrigal for 2024 will make sense. Madrigal got hotter for longer in the middle of the season, but it's Mastrobuoni who owns the handedness edge in a potential utility role. If anything, he's shown slightly better versatility, though Madrigal's defensive chops at third base and Mastrobuoni's misadventures in limited opportunities in the outfield have closed that gap. Most importantly, Mastrobuoni has demonstrated a durability that continues to elude Madrigal. 

    Amaya seems to have a safe place on the 2024 roster, and could even usurp Gomes as the starter relatively quickly. Down the stretch, it was clear that David Ross didn't really trust his rookie backstop, but they have the whole offseason and next year's convocation in Arizona to polish and instruct Amaya as a full-fledged catcher of the kind this organization prefers. 

    The problem is that, the more Amaya plays, the more the Cubs will be deploying an all-or-nothing, strikeout-prone right-handed bat in the lower third of their order. That, at the very least, is a big problem for the staying power of Wisdom and Canario. The former will be arbitration-eligible this winter, with 76 home runs over the last three seasons bloating his projected earnings and an utter lack of defensive reliability narrowing the options for Ross to use him well.

    In Amaya, Wisdom, Canario, Mastrobuoni, and Madrigal, the Cubs have a bunch of guys with exceptional skills in one or two areas and equally obvious shortcomings in others. That doesn't fit the construction of very many modern benches, and while our first inclination might be to shrug that off, there are a few factors militating against a specialist approach to building a supporting cast in this day and age.

    1. The shallowness of benches. If there's a player you trust to get a hit in a big spot, but not in the field or even on the bases, you have to burn two of just four available bench options to get any utility out of that player. It was much easier to make those kinds of maneuvers in the days of seven- and eight-man benches. Those days are long gone.
    2. Fewer position players play 160 (or even 155) games with each passing year. As a result, you want bench guys to have the capacity to step into a regular, starting role for a couple weeks or more at a time. That's much harder if those players have just one or two real strengths, and it can add an extra complication: the guy who needs a day off or a trip to the injured list might not match up with the positional competencies of the players available to replace him. 
    3. The slow, inexorable squeeze on offense continues. The new rules that add an occasional hit on a ground ball and which have resuscitated the running game throughout the league are a nice counterbalance, but that's all they are. Strikeouts remain at an all-time high. Because of that high baseline of swing-and-miss, and because the overlong time since the last round of expansion has flooded rosters with talented pitchers who can throw strikes even with their good breaking ball, the ever-increasing athleticism of ballplayers has done more for team defense than for offense. You just can't be very valuable as even a semi-regular if you lack power, but you also can't sustain much value if you have holes in your swing, because pitchers will find them and your strikeout rate will skyrocket. The current shape of the game favors generalists, not specialists, especially among role players.

    The Cubs will probably need to jettison at least one of Wisdom, Canario and Mervis this winter, just as they'll need to choose between Madrigal and Mastrobuoni. More dauntingly, they will have to replace those fungible role players with stars, or they'll continue to have an overall talent shortfall in their positional corps next season. 

    Which of these fringe options would you most like to see them keep? Who do you think needs to be let go? Who else already inside the organization should figure into the lineup, barring external additions? Let us know what you're thinking, as we set the stage for the big conversations about this roster over the coming weeks and months.

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    To me the biggest wildcard is Morel.  Can he be a viable everyday 3B if he just focuses there instead of also having to practice 5 other positions?  It's IMO much more likely than shifting Madrigal over there was at this same time last year.

    But if Morel can just be your everyday 3B, the roster fits together better since tou don't have a dedicated DH.  Then you can afford to have more specialized fits like Madrigal and Wisdom on the bench. If Morel's the 3B and we go get a 1B as expected, I think a bench of Madrigal, Wisdom, Amaya, Tauchman, Mastro checks pretty much every box except LHH power.  And that could potentially be addressed by swapping in Mervis or someone else for one of the guys above.

    Morel at 3rd also has the added benefit of only needing to add one bat this winter, freeing up resources for the other holes on the roster.

    The other "if the season started today" scenario I'm curious about is Owen Caissie.  It is very unlikely he cracks the roster out of ST, but given how much he dominated at AA and the PPI, if he comes into ST and balls out how willing are they to roster him?  If Morel is no longer locked into the DH spot there's some potential runway there.

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    9 minutes ago, Bertz said:

    To me the biggest wildcard is Morel.  Can he be a viable everyday 3B if he just focuses there instead of also having to practice 5 other positions?  It's IMO much more likely than shifting Madrigal over there was at this same time last year.

    But if Morel can just be your everyday 3B, the roster fits together better since tou don't have a dedicated DH.  Then you can afford to have more specialized fits like Madrigal and Wisdom on the bench. If Morel's the 3B and we go get a 1B as expected, I think a bench of Madrigal, Wisdom, Amaya, Tauchman, Mastro checks pretty much every box except LHH power.  And that could potentially be addressed by swapping in Mervis or someone else for one of the guys above.

    Morel at 3rd also has the added benefit of only needing to add one bat this winter, freeing up resources for the other holes on the roster.

    The other "if the season started today" scenario I'm curious about is Owen Caissie.  It is very unlikely he cracks the roster out of ST, but given how much he dominated at AA and the PPI, if he comes into ST and balls out how willing are they to roster him?  If Morel is no longer locked into the DH spot there's some potential runway there.

    Why not get creative, move Nico to third, and have Morel take 2nd? To me, that's Morel's best position. The ONLY reason to do this is for defense. If they don't think Morel can handle 2nd, he's a DH. They're not going to put him in the OF. His best position may be trade chip. 

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    11 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

    Why not get creative, move Nico to third, and have Morel take 2nd? To me, that's Morel's best position. The ONLY reason to do this is for defense. If they don't think Morel can handle 2nd, he's a DH. They're not going to put him in the OF. His best position may be trade chip. 

    I think given their relative strengths it makes more sense to have Morel at 3B.  Morel's arm plays better there, it's the position he has the most professional reps at, and the decreased reaction time may be a blessing for someone who sometimes struggles with routine plays(less thinking more reacting).  Plus Nico's biggest strength is range and he has a middling arm, so while he'd be fine at 3rd you'd probably dull some of the benefit by having him get to a bunch of balls to his right that he then can't make the throw to get the runner.

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    10 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

    Why not get creative, move Nico to third, and have Morel take 2nd? To me, that's Morel's best position. The ONLY reason to do this is for defense. If they don't think Morel can handle 2nd, he's a DH. They're not going to put him in the OF. His best position may be trade chip. 

    I wouldn't move Nico again personally.  I think the team needs to be really honest with themselves about whether they think 3B can work, and if they don't then yeah trade him.  I love Morel as a dude but I don't love him as a player if he's locked into DH or 1B

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    Morel needs to be at 3rd next year. And I would also give Mervis another shot at 1st. I would like to see someone like Candelario signed so that if either faltered he can fill either spot. And if each did well, he or one of them can DH. A trade for Alonso or signing Hoskins would also work as insurance for Mervis. But it doesn’t work for Morel. If Morel can’t handle 3rd it would need to be Madrigal. I honestly feel if Morel is already working on the mechanics to playing third he should be fine there. They worked miracles with Madrigal. I would think they can get Morel to pass for at least an average 3rd baseman. 

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    Shouldn't we bring Tauchman back? His approach is great and each month he posted a really strong OBP. I don't believe PCA gets handed the CF job, I think he starts in Iowa without a doubt, but our roster lacks a solid CF option without him, and it also lacks LHB. Give him a million bucks and he's the perfect placeholder.

    I'm posting under the impression that we are not bringing Bellinger back.

    Personally I believe, without question, that Happ should be our leadoff hitter. He friggin walked 99 times this year and the ISO recovered to .180. I would absolutely stick him in the leadoff spot and expect a 350+ OBP with a really good approach to setting the table.

    Seiya should bat 2nd. I am not crazy about putting relative slap-hitters like Nico there. Seiya is a great fit for that 2 spot in the order. I think he found an approach (coincedentally much like the change some of us had wished to see for 500 days) that works for him in the MLB and I expect him to be a lot more aggressive in the zone, which will actually boost his walk numbers when he starts getting pitched around so much. I believe he's our best chance at a 140-150 hitter. Something like 280/375/550 is possible. 

    From there I would probably put Swanson, who I believe is going to have a better offensive season and get back to the 115 range he was as a Brave.

    Morel could be the cleanup guy. Live with the K's, he's probably going to hit 30-40 HR, there wasn't much difference between him and Alonso this year, brass tacks. We all want to believe Alonso is going to get back to being a 140 hitter and blame BABIP for everything but he eschews line drives for fly balls, and that has to be factored in, along with being a slow-as-horsefeathers pull-hitter, right? Do we really need to chase HR if the bottom-line results are similar to what we already have in-house? Why not try Morel at 1B, for that matter?

    I actually like the idea of Nico batting 5th, which is unorthodox, but I like having his high-contact approach there. Knowing Ross, though, he's not ever going to do my lineup because he puts so much emphasis on breaking up same-handedness. But to do that the FO is going to need to get creative. 

    I hope we can bring back Candelario to play 3B. Seems like the injury impacted him significantly. However if we don't bring him back, I am less-than-enthused about every internal option at the position and we will lack LHB against RHP even more. I am not a fan of Madrigal. I would see if any team wants to trade for him. It does not appear the org has much faith in Morel's ability to play 3B. It's pretty much the biggest question I want to see how they answer, if they don't bring Jeimer back. Madrigal is not the answer, Cubs. 

    Gomes is fine for 7th. However, I strongly believe that C defense holds us back some. He and Amaya are basically identical in pop time and arm strength and both leave plenty to be desired in this age of trackmeets on the bases. I would sniff around to make a trade of Amaya and upgrade that position to push Gomes to back-up. Don't emphasize offense and instead get someone who can keep the ground game in check, and excels at framing, where we have not excelled in years. 

    Tauchman can be a good CF placeholder and can pretty much bat anywhere at the top or the bottom of the order.

    Canario could turn out to be a decent DH. Recall that before the injury, he closed out 2022 on a bender with not just power but extreme improvement in his BBK. I think next year we could see a return to that. I'm fine with buying a bat to play there also. I'd be really interested if TOR wants to move Vlad, but I'm trying to avoid going too far off the rails and sticking to realistic moves. DH could already be in-house; it's just a matter of whether Ross will allow that approach or if he will demand a veteran. 

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    1 hour ago, I owned a Suzuki said:

    I think its more likely that Tauchman returns than Wisdom.  Though I would bet both will be on the opening day roster

    I don’t think there is any chance that Wisdom is back with the Cubs. He filled a niche while they were bad but they should not have any room for him on a roster that intends to compete for a division. 

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    Yeah, Morel to 3B is probably the end of Wisdom’s time with Cubs. Swapping out one RHH 3B for a younger, cheaper player with some similarities (bat first ,Ks, power, enough patience) and a little more youthful athleticism 

     

     

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    10 hours ago, CubinNY said:

    I don’t think there is any chance that Wisdom is back with the Cubs. He filled a niche while they were bad but they should not have any room for him on a roster that intends to compete for a division. 

    Maybe so. But I feel this is said after every season the last few seasons. He shouldn’t be back, but I wouldn’t bet against him. 

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    11 hours ago, TomtheBombadil said:

    Yeah, Morel to 3B is probably the end of Wisdom’s time with Cubs. Swapping out one RHH 3B for a younger, cheaper player with some similarities (bat first ,Ks, power, enough patience) and a little more youthful athleticism 

     

     

    Going to keep banging the drum on this: if we/Cubs leadership doesn't believe he's a viable every day starter on opening day next year (at potentially/probably an offensive premium position), can they afford to let him grow into whatever potential is out there for him by throwing him out there every day? Because if he's not an every day player for the 2024 team, and I'm not sold he is, it's going to be hard not to stunt his growth by putting him in some sort of platoon, not riding through his cold stretches, etc. He's a couple million dollars cheaper, but I assume he nets a lot more on the trade market. 

    Basically, if we're just looking at the current roster, or we assume we just punt on third base going into next year, a Morel/Miles platoon is probably marginally better than a Wisdom/Miles platoon, but I'll take a Wisdom/Miles platoon + whatever we can get in a Morel trade over a Morel/Miles platoon (or handing the keys to Morel). 

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    19 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

    Going to keep banging the drum on this: if we/Cubs leadership doesn't believe he's a viable every day starter on opening day next year (at potentially/probably an offensive premium position), can they afford to let him grow into whatever potential is out there for him by throwing him out there every day? Because if he's not an every day player for the 2024 team, and I'm not sold he is, it's going to be hard not to stunt his growth by putting him in some sort of platoon, not riding through his cold stretches, etc. He's a couple million dollars cheaper, but I assume he nets a lot more on the trade market. 

    Basically, if we're just looking at the current roster, or we assume we just punt on third base going into next year, a Morel/Miles platoon is probably marginally better than a Wisdom/Miles platoon, but I'll take a Wisdom/Miles platoon + whatever we can get in a Morel trade over a Morel/Miles platoon (or handing the keys to Morel). 

    The thing with trading Morel for the sake of:

    - he probably doesn’t have much trade value as a positionless bat 

    - the cheap power maybe has more Value here. Cubs got on base and scored but were middle of the pack at best in power

    - The 40 has alot that can be tidied up. I’d “rather” move Mervis, Alcantara, Merryweather, Rucker, Kilian/Wesneski, Leiter, Thompson, Young, Wisdom than Morel this offseason

    Tbh I expect anyone obvious to give the job so early, there are no obvious star starters available, is just holding the spot for BJ Murray. I even believe the position could be an open competition in ST if they do the right thing and sign Ohtani

     

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    5 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

    Going to keep banging the drum on this: if we/Cubs leadership doesn't believe he's a viable every day starter on opening day next year (at potentially/probably an offensive premium position), can they afford to let him grow into whatever potential is out there for him by throwing him out there every day? Because if he's not an every day player for the 2024 team, and I'm not sold he is, it's going to be hard not to stunt his growth by putting him in some sort of platoon, not riding through his cold stretches, etc. He's a couple million dollars cheaper, but I assume he nets a lot more on the trade market. 

    Basically, if we're just looking at the current roster, or we assume we just punt on third base going into next year, a Morel/Miles platoon is probably marginally better than a Wisdom/Miles platoon, but I'll take a Wisdom/Miles platoon + whatever we can get in a Morel trade over a Morel/Miles platoon (or handing the keys to Morel). 

    Probably depends on how settled DH is.  If Ohtani, Soto or some other addition of some consequence(JD Martinez?  Santander?) is expected to play there most days then yes. If not and they've spent the money on Alonso and lots of pitching then Morel doesn't *need* to be a most days 3B to get playing time.  Would they be passing the opportunity to cash in on his maximum value?  Maybe, but that's not a goal in and of itself so if it gets you to the preferred outcome in building the 2024 roster that's okay.

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    Maybe a Morel/Miles as platoon a placeholder for Shaw?  Ignoring the financial part for a moment, I believe Shaw is going to climb pretty quickly through the system and be knocking at the door at some point in 2024.

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    Yeah there's no one really out there super intriguing to go pay to take over third base, unless you want to sell the farm for Jose Ramirez. But I also think it's telling that they obviously didn't trust Morel at all at third last year, and I assume that was in the midst of him putting in plenty of work defensively. I guess he's fine as a DH option, would be even better if we found some lefty to take the heavy side of the platoon (Morel was .893 against lefties, .798 against righties). But I think that Wisdom and Morel are pretty redundant, and Wisdom giving you 90% of the offensive production with the ability to moonlight as a mediocre corner infielder makes the difference negligible, so then it's just a matter of getting the most you can by flipping one of them. 

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    1 minute ago, squally1313 said:

    Yeah there's no one really out there super intriguing to go pay to take over third base, unless you want to sell the farm for Jose Ramirez. But I also think it's telling that they obviously didn't trust Morel at all at third last year, and I assume that was in the midst of him putting in plenty of work defensively. I guess he's fine as a DH option, would be even better if we found some lefty to take the heavy side of the platoon (Morel was .893 against lefties, .798 against righties). But I think that Wisdom and Morel are pretty redundant, and Wisdom giving you 90% of the offensive production with the ability to moonlight as a mediocre corner infielder makes the difference negligible, so then it's just a matter of getting the most you can by flipping one of them. 

    My hope is that because it's his throwing motion they want to overhaul it's a lot more feasible to do in the offseason than in-season.  But yeah like you said he put in plenty of work this year because it was a gaping hole on the roster before Candelario got here.  My expectation is that he's either a DH for us or shipped off somewhere he can play 2B more or less every day (Tigers or Mariners?).

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    2 hours ago, TomtheBombadil said:

    The thing with trading Morel for the sake of:

    - he probably doesn’t have much trade value as a positionless bat 

    - the cheap power maybe has more Value here. Cubs got on base and scored but were middle of the pack at best in power

    - The 40 has alot that can be tidied up. I’d “rather” move Mervis, Alcantara, Merryweather, Rucker, Kilian/Wesneski, Leiter, Thompson, Young, Wisdom than Morel this offseason

    Tbh I expect anyone obvious to give the job so early, there are no obvious star starters available, is just holding the spot for BJ Murray. I even believe the position could be an open competition in ST if they do the right thing and sign Ohtani

     

    I disagree with the idea he doesn’t get us much back in a trade. He has shown he can play second base. As a 22/23 year old player who spend very little time at AAA he has produced to a OPS+ of 110 in those years. Last year had a slugging of 508, OPS of 821 and OPS+ of 116. With several years of control and young and basically still very green to the game, if he doesn’t bring a lot back there is absolutely no reason to trade him. You could be trading a guy who hits 35-40 homers a year. And he could get better. I think it would be a huge mistake to trade him unless you got great quality back. I feel people greatly under appreciate Morel.
    How many second baseman in baseball produced OPS of 821 last year? If those how many did it at 23? 

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    2 hours ago, squally1313 said:

    Show your work

    All I have is the eye test. Frankly that is all anyone should have. And fielding stays with him at 2nd would be a very small sample size. So very unreliable. 

    From what I saw from him he looks capable at 2nd. And no stat has enough information to prove me right or wrong. 

    if that isn’t good enough for you, so be it. You provide me with proof he can’t do it. 

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    4 hours ago, Bertz said:

    My hope is that because it's his throwing motion they want to overhaul it's a lot more feasible to do in the offseason than in-season.  But yeah like you said he put in plenty of work this year because it was a gaping hole on the roster before Candelario got here.  My expectation is that he's either a DH for us or shipped off somewhere he can play 2B more or less every day (Tigers or Mariners?).

    I don't think it's only that. In those handful of games he played there - granted not even a sample size - he stayed back on balls he should have charged and he simply didn't have the anticipation on BIP to get his feet set for his throws. I'm sure the org had plenty of looks behind the scenes and just felt he would cost them on more than just errors. It sure would be nice if he could play 3rd, he has a rocket arm and athleticism to spare. 

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    30 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

    All I have is the eye test. Frankly that is all anyone should have. And fielding stays with him at 2nd would be a very small sample size. So very unreliable. 

    From what I saw from him he looks capable at 2nd. And no stat has enough information to prove me right or wrong. 

    if that isn’t good enough for you, so be it. You provide me with proof he can’t do it. 

    1. Not sure what to do with 'no stat has enough information to prove me right or wrong'
    2. Why are we talking about him as a second baseman? Don't we already have a really good second baseman? Didn't we kinda build the whole thing out of a really good middle infield?
    3. Morel took over second base in early July when Dansby went down. Something like 14 games. Dansby got back on 7/22. From that game on, Morel didn't start in the infield until 9/19, and didn't get a middle infield start until the second to the last game of the year (we were out of it, Nico got hurt). In that time we had Wisdom (mediocre defensively at best), Mastrobuoni (who knows), Madrigal (who learned how to play it on the fly seemingly), and Candelario (mediocre) at third. I assume someone in the organization knows what they're talking about when they came to defense, and after his two week run as our starting second baseman he was basically never invited back to the infield. Probably no reason!

    Any logical person in Morel's shoes would have looked at the roster post Dansby/Cody signing and seen third base as the obvious spot to fill, both in the short term and in the long run. If he couldn't find a way to get substantial playing time there this year, that's a knock against him. 

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    17 minutes ago, squally1313 said:
    1. Not sure what to do with 'no stat has enough information to prove me right or wrong'
    2. Why are we talking about him as a second baseman? Don't we already have a really good second baseman? Didn't we kinda build the whole thing out of a really good middle infield?
    3. Morel took over second base in early July when Dansby went down. Something like 14 games. Dansby got back on 7/22. From that game on, Morel didn't start in the infield until 9/19, and didn't get a middle infield start until the second to the last game of the year (we were out of it, Nico got hurt). In that time we had Wisdom (mediocre defensively at best), Mastrobuoni (who knows), Madrigal (who learned how to play it on the fly seemingly), and Candelario (mediocre) at third. I assume someone in the organization knows what they're talking about when they came to defense, and after his two week run as our starting second baseman he was basically never invited back to the infield. Probably no reason!

    Any logical person in Morel's shoes would have looked at the roster post Dansby/Cody signing and seen third base as the obvious spot to fill, both in the short term and in the long run. If he couldn't find a way to get substantial playing time there this year, that's a knock against him. 

    If you read my original post my point was as a trade asset IMO he is very valuable. If the Cubs were to trade him I would think whoever was trading for him would most likely view him as a second baseman. I said nothing about him playing second if he remained a Cub. The only point to my original post was I disagreed with the comment that he would not be a valuable trade bait. If trading him did not bring a good return I would hope they kept him. I would hope the Cubs worked him at 3rd. I don’t think it is that easy to find a kid with as little experience and as young as him who post OPS over 800. That is worth a lot. I don’t think not getting playing time at 2nd, where the Cubs have a gold glove contender, is a knock against his abilities to play second. 

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    8 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

    If you read my original post my point was as a trade asset IMO he is very valuable. If the Cubs were to trade him I would think whoever was trading for him would most likely view him as a second baseman. I said nothing about him playing second if he remained a Cub. The only point to my original post was I disagreed with the comment that he would not be a valuable trade bait. If trading him did not bring a good return I would hope they kept him. I would hope the Cubs worked him at 3rd. I don’t think it is that easy to find a kid with as little experience and as young as him who post OPS over 800. That is worth a lot. I don’t think not getting playing time at 2nd, where the Cubs have a gold glove contender, is a knock against his abilities to play second. 

    I think ultimately we're on the same page then? I don't think he's a very valuable player in his current form. I see paths to him becoming a valuable player, but they mostly require consistent, starter level reps both at the plate and in the field, and I don't think we have the cushion, talent-wise, WAR-wise, however you want to define it, to slot him into our every day lineup next year. And I think, crucially, other teams are in positions to give him the reps he needs. He's a controllable, projectible player who is fun to watch. I think a non-contending team would trade 2 years of a good pitcher for 4 years of Morel. I think a top team up against a punitive luxury tax limit would take the cheap 1.5 WAR knowing that they can make up for it elsewhere. I think we need more next year. 

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    13 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

    I think ultimately we're on the same page then? I don't think he's a very valuable player in his current form. I see paths to him becoming a valuable player, but they mostly require consistent, starter level reps both at the plate and in the field, and I don't think we have the cushion, talent-wise, WAR-wise, however you want to define it, to slot him into our every day lineup next year. And I think, crucially, other teams are in positions to give him the reps he needs. He's a controllable, projectible player who is fun to watch. I think a non-contending team would trade 2 years of a good pitcher for 4 years of Morel. I think a top team up against a punitive luxury tax limit would take the cheap 1.5 WAR knowing that they can make up for it elsewhere. I think we need more next year. 

    We may be on the same page. But I do think IF the Cubs coaching staff really thinks they can turn him into an adequate 3rd baseman he becomes much more than a 1.5WAR player. So he could be valuable to the team next year. No one thought they could get Madrigal to be decent and he did a great job. So if they say they can do it, I wouldn’t bet against them. But as you said, as he currently is performing, the Cubs need more. 
     

    As for a trade and his value, if they got a younger solid pitcher with a few years of control for him I would consider that about right. But I wouldn’t want him used for a 1 year guy like Alonso. I would rather they trade a mid level prospect or two for him instead of using Morel. 
     

    if the Guardians are listening to offers for Ramirez, who has to be added to Morel for something like that to work? I know Ramirez has a no trade clause. But didn’t Hawkins scout and sign him. Might be waive it for here? And if he did that would be the sort of deal I would like to see Morel + in. 

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    10 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

    We may be on the same page. But I do think IF the Cubs coaching staff really thinks they can turn him into an adequate 3rd baseman he becomes much more than a 1.5WAR player. So he could be valuable to the team next year. No one thought they could get Madrigal to be decent and he did a great job. So if they say they can do it, I wouldn’t bet against them. But as you said, as he currently is performing, the Cubs need more. 
     

    As for a trade and his value, if they got a younger solid pitcher with a few years of control for him I would consider that about right. But I wouldn’t want him used for a 1 year guy like Alonso. I would rather they trade a mid level prospect or two for him instead of using Morel. 
     

    if the Guardians are listening to offers for Ramirez, who has to be added to Morel for something like that to work? I know Ramirez has a no trade clause. But didn’t Hawkins scout and sign him. Might be waive it for here? And if he did that would be the sort of deal I would like to see Morel + in. 

    I just can’t imagine they haven’t already tried with Morel. Wisdom was abominable in may and June, madrigal wasn’t much better. He still couldn’t slot in. 
     

    im pretty sure morel would be like, a third piece in a José Ramirez deal. His contract is super reasonable for his (elite) performance. 

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