Week 16 - Bears vs. Seahawks 3:05 PM

[David]

I want Byron Leftwich, but I feel like it makes too much sense for him to go to Jacksonville

 

yeah, i don't know. not really sure what the hype is about when tom brady and bruce arians (not to mention chris godwin, mike evans, antonio brown, etc.) are around.

[Soul]

I want Byron Leftwich, but I feel like it makes too much sense for him to go to Jacksonville

 

yeah, i don't know. not really sure what the hype is about when tom brady and bruce arians (not to mention chris godwin, mike evans, antonio brown, etc.) are around.

 

Unless people feel that he's really benefitted in his own skillset because of them. But, good point.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I want Byron Leftwich, but I feel like it makes too much sense for him to go to Jacksonville

 

yeah, i don't know. not really sure what the hype is about when tom brady and bruce arians (not to mention chris godwin, mike evans, antonio brown, etc.) are around.

He also got Winston over 5000 yards

[David]

I want Byron Leftwich, but I feel like it makes too much sense for him to go to Jacksonville

 

yeah, i don't know. not really sure what the hype is about when tom brady and bruce arians (not to mention chris godwin, mike evans, antonio brown, etc.) are around.

He also got Winston over 5000 yards

 

with 33 touchdowns to 30 picks

 

so basically he just threw a lot. winston has had better years than that.

[SpongeWorthy]

i'd be interested in a leftwich/bowles package deal

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

yeah, i don't know. not really sure what the hype is about when tom brady and bruce arians (not to mention chris godwin, mike evans, antonio brown, etc.) are around.

He also got Winston over 5000 yards

 

with 33 touchdowns to 30 picks

 

so basically he just threw a lot. winston has had better years than that.

 

the same knocks on Leftwich apply to Moore; good receivers, good QB, good running back, good TE play. Idk, I dont see a big difference between the two of them, I'd probably be fine with either

[Derwood]

[Old Style]

What coaches have success without great players? We should hire one of those.

[WrigleyField 22]

Dang, that CHI to WFT OT pipeline

[David]

What coaches have success without great players? We should hire one of those.

 

i'm assuming this is in response to me. it's one thing to have success with or without great players.

 

it's another for your entire resume to be based on an offense that is bruce arians's baby with tom brady quarterbacking (and, yes, an embarrassment of riches at WR). no idea what the hype is about or what makes people think he's interesting as a candidate other than arians talking him up. it doesn't necessarily have to be the case, but we already saw how much that means with reid/nagy (when reid took the blame for all the bad playcalling and gave him the credit for the good and said nagy was the most HC ready coach he's ever worked with blah blah blah).

[raw]

What coaches have success without great players? We should hire one of those.

 

i'm assuming this is in response to me. it's one thing to have success with or without great players.

 

it's another for your entire resume to be based on an offense that is bruce arians's baby with tom brady quarterbacking (and, yes, an embarrassment of riches at WR). no idea what the hype is about or what makes people think he's interesting as a candidate other than arians talking him up. it doesn't necessarily have to be the case, but we already saw how much that means with reid/nagy (when reid took the blame for all the bad playcalling and gave him the credit for the good and said nagy was the most HC ready coach he's ever worked with blah blah blah).

 

Difference between Leftwich and Nagy is that Leftwich legitimately runs the offense. Arians is old and just a figurehead at this point. He's repeatedly stated that Leftwich runs offensive meetings, with or without him present. Plus, Leftwich has played QB at the NFL level and was well known as a leader even from back in his days in college when he played thru an ankle injury and his OL literally picked him up and carried him down the field everytime they moved the chains. I'm not completely sold on Leftwich (or any other coach TBH) but it has nothing to do with Nagy, Brady, Arians or anything else. He's definitely in my top 5.

[Old Style]

What coaches have success without great players? We should hire one of those.

 

i'm assuming this is in response to me. it's one thing to have success with or without great players.

 

it's another for your entire resume to be based on an offense that is bruce arians's baby with tom brady quarterbacking (and, yes, an embarrassment of riches at WR). no idea what the hype is about or what makes people think he's interesting as a candidate other than arians talking him up. it doesn't necessarily have to be the case, but we already saw how much that means with reid/nagy (when reid took the blame for all the bad playcalling and gave him the credit for the good and said nagy was the most HC ready coach he's ever worked with blah blah blah).

It wasn't really directed at anyone. It was part serious, part joking. All great coaches had great players which can make it hard to assess how good a coach really is, in my opinion. It feels like it is even more prominent in football. Maybe Belichick is one that can do more with less. But did he make Tom Brady great or would Brady have been the GOAT under someone else? No one really knows.

[David]

What coaches have success without great players? We should hire one of those.

 

i'm assuming this is in response to me. it's one thing to have success with or without great players.

 

it's another for your entire resume to be based on an offense that is bruce arians's baby with tom brady quarterbacking (and, yes, an embarrassment of riches at WR). no idea what the hype is about or what makes people think he's interesting as a candidate other than arians talking him up. it doesn't necessarily have to be the case, but we already saw how much that means with reid/nagy (when reid took the blame for all the bad playcalling and gave him the credit for the good and said nagy was the most HC ready coach he's ever worked with blah blah blah).

 

Difference between Leftwich and Nagy is that Leftwich legitimately runs the offense. Arians is old and just a figurehead at this point. He's repeatedly stated that Leftwich runs offensive meetings, with or without him present. Plus, Leftwich has played QB at the NFL level and was well known as a leader even from back in his days in college when he played thru an ankle injury and his OL literally picked him up and carried him down the field everytime they moved the chains. I'm not completely sold on Leftwich (or any other coach TBH) but it has nothing to do with Nagy, Brady, Arians or anything else. He's definitely in my top 5.

 

the only comparison to nagy was in the praise coming from an established offensive minded and highly regarded head coach. i really don't believe that arians is as hands off as is being said here.

 

and if anything, nagy (from what we were told and from what we could see from afar) was doing more with less as alex smith and their offense took a huge jump that year. and nobody had anything bad (especially not reid) to say about nagy as a leader prior to this season. if anything, it was seen as his one trait to hang his hat on even if he did suck at calling/running/designing offense (again, before this year).

 

my "criticism" (it's not really that) is based entirely on the fact that i have no idea what his qualifications are - and having played does little to nothing for me. plenty of guys who played at the NFL level suck ass as coaches and plenty of guys who didn't are great.

 

just about anybody who is a cromulent nfl coordinator should be able to coach that offense to success. maybe he'd be good, maybe he'd be bad - i'm just not sure what there really is to be excited about.

[SpongeWorthy]

feel like leftwich probably deserves some credit for helping brady at this high a level in his age 43 and 44 seasons?

[raw]

 

i'm assuming this is in response to me. it's one thing to have success with or without great players.

 

it's another for your entire resume to be based on an offense that is bruce arians's baby with tom brady quarterbacking (and, yes, an embarrassment of riches at WR). no idea what the hype is about or what makes people think he's interesting as a candidate other than arians talking him up. it doesn't necessarily have to be the case, but we already saw how much that means with reid/nagy (when reid took the blame for all the bad playcalling and gave him the credit for the good and said nagy was the most HC ready coach he's ever worked with blah blah blah).

 

Difference between Leftwich and Nagy is that Leftwich legitimately runs the offense. Arians is old and just a figurehead at this point. He's repeatedly stated that Leftwich runs offensive meetings, with or without him present. Plus, Leftwich has played QB at the NFL level and was well known as a leader even from back in his days in college when he played thru an ankle injury and his OL literally picked him up and carried him down the field everytime they moved the chains. I'm not completely sold on Leftwich (or any other coach TBH) but it has nothing to do with Nagy, Brady, Arians or anything else. He's definitely in my top 5.

 

the only comparison to nagy was in the praise coming from an established offensive minded and highly regarded head coach. i really don't believe that arians is as hands off as is being said here.

 

and if anything, nagy (from what we were told and from what we could see from afar) was doing more with less as alex smith and their offense took a huge jump that year. and nobody had anything bad (especially not reid) to say about nagy as a leader prior to this season. if anything, it was seen as his one trait to hang his hat on even if he did suck at calling/running/designing offense (again, before this year).

 

my "criticism" (it's not really that) is based entirely on the fact that i have no idea what his qualifications are - and having played does little to nothing for me. plenty of guys who played at the NFL level suck ass as coaches and plenty of guys who didn't are great.

 

just about anybody who is a cromulent nfl coordinator should be able to coach that offense to success. maybe he'd be good, maybe he'd be bad - i'm just not sure what there really is to be excited about.

 

I don't know what would excite you about anyone then (not that coaches are exciting in the first place). Nobody really is qualified to be a head coach, until they actually become a head coach. Even some with experience (Urban Meyer) turn out to be bad. I mean, everyone wants young offensive coordinators, whose offenses put up big numbers. Leftwich is young (41), has offenses that put up big numbers (with and without Brady) and you take points away because the offense has too much talent? I get your point, but he also has played a huge part in the development of Chris Godwin, who went from a good compliment to a probably 18-20M/year contract coming this offseason. Guys like Shanahan and McVay had similar resumes to Leftwich. Kellen Moore very similar, down to having tons of offensive talent.

[David]

i'm just saying this is a situation wherein i feel comfortable docking the OC a decent chunk for credit on the offensive success. you couldn't draw up what he has much better short of replacing brady with one of the (few) younger guys who is as good or better. it is an extreme case.

 

it's not a situation i look at and think of the OC/play-caller as one of the first 2-3 guys who deserves credit for the success.

 

granted, it's all dumb luck in the end anyway. i'm not crazy about any of the candidates.

[WrigleyField 22]

They should just interview every DC that's faced the Bears at least 3x over the Nagy tenure and just ask, "why was our offense so easy to gameplan against" and take lots of notes.

[UK]

As a proponent of Leftwich, Im drawn to several things...

 

1) His traits match the strengths of Fields and the offense. I think he's shown to extend defenses with a vertical attack combined with a heavy usage with 1 or more TEs. (Kmet might be the 2nd best receiver next year). Leftwich has adjusted his scheme for the strength of his QB but even with Rosen to Brady still was successful throwing deep. We obviously haven't seen any adjustments from Nagy whether it's been from Daniel to Fields. I also am impressed by the Bucs use of the screen.

 

2) I think there is value in being a leader, it's one of Fields' greatest traits in a similar manner that has followed Leftwich both as a player and coach.

 

3) Somewhat back to #1, Leftwich has been effective as a playcaller ranking top 5 in efficiency.

 

He's my 1st choice as previously stated, so I'm obviously biased.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I firmly believe Byron Leftwich will be a terrific head coach for a long time. Because I believe this, he will almost certainly flame out after being given a chance and never get another opportunity again because of just how poorly it went.

[Derwood]

I firmly believe Byron Leftwich will be a terrific head coach for a long time. Because I believe this, he will almost certainly flame out after being given a chance and never get another opportunity again because of just how poorly it went.

 

Or the Bears will pass on him and he will go on to be the next great coach for the Packers or Vikings or something

[UK]

I firmly believe Byron Leftwich will be a terrific head coach for a long time. Because I believe this, he will almost certainly flame out after being given a chance and never get another opportunity again because of just how poorly it went.

 

Or the Bears will pass on him and he will go on to be the next great coach for the Packers or Vikings or something

 

That's how I feel about LaFluer, Bears completely missed in picking Nagy when he was there for the taking.

[raw]

As a proponent of Leftwich, Im drawn to several things...

 

1) His traits match the strengths of Fields and the offense. I think he's shown to extend defenses with a vertical attack combined with a heavy usage with 1 or more TEs. (Kmet might be the 2nd best receiver next year). Leftwich has adjusted his scheme for the strength of his QB but even with Rosen to Brady still was successful throwing deep. We obviously haven't seen any adjustments from Nagy whether it's been from Daniel to Fields. I also am impressed by the Bucs use of the screen.

 

2) I think there is value in being a leader, it's one of Fields' greatest traits in a similar manner that has followed Leftwich both as a player and coach.

 

3) Somewhat back to #1, Leftwich has been effective as a playcaller ranking top 5 in efficiency.

 

He's my 1st choice as previously stated, so I'm obviously biased.

 

One thing keeping Leftwich from being my top guy is I'm not sure who would be coming with him. For one, the guys I'd probably have ahead of him would potentially come with a GM candidate as well (McDaniels, Roman, Moore). Secondly, the Bucs have a really good coaching staff but a lot of their top guys are older. Their younger guys are mostly unproven, especially in terms of being coordinators or playcallers. And Leftwich has only really coached under the Arians tree so it's not like he can pull guys from his past connections, unless it's from his playing days (admittedly, I haven't looked into anyone he may have played with or for). So, you're potentially looking at a 1st time HC, who will likely also have calling plays on his plate. You may get an experienced OC as kind of like a mentor, but I'd imagine you'd also get a 1st time DC since I don't see Bowles coming with Leftwich to make a lateral move.

 

But I do love your 1st point, and it may be the most important when looking at the next candidate. Fields would be a fantastic fit with what Leftwich has shown he can do with an offense in the last 3-4 years.

[WrigleyField 22]

As a proponent of Leftwich, Im drawn to several things...

 

1) His traits match the strengths of Fields and the offense. I think he's shown to extend defenses with a vertical attack combined with a heavy usage with 1 or more TEs. (Kmet might be the 2nd best receiver next year). Leftwich has adjusted his scheme for the strength of his QB but even with Rosen to Brady still was successful throwing deep. We obviously haven't seen any adjustments from Nagy whether it's been from Daniel to Fields. I also am impressed by the Bucs use of the screen.

 

2) I think there is value in being a leader, it's one of Fields' greatest traits in a similar manner that has followed Leftwich both as a player and coach.

 

3) Somewhat back to #1, Leftwich has been effective as a playcaller ranking top 5 in efficiency.

 

He's my 1st choice as previously stated, so I'm obviously biased.

 

One thing keeping Leftwich from being my top guy is I'm not sure who would be coming with him. For one, the guys I'd probably have ahead of him would potentially come with a GM candidate as well (McDaniels, Roman, Moore). Secondly, the Bucs have a really good coaching staff but a lot of their top guys are older. Their younger guys are mostly unproven, especially in terms of being coordinators or playcallers. And Leftwich has only really coached under the Arians tree so it's not like he can pull guys from his past connections, unless it's from his playing days (admittedly, I haven't looked into anyone he may have played with or for). So, you're potentially looking at a 1st time HC, who will likely also have calling plays on his plate. You may get an experienced OC as kind of like a mentor, but I'd imagine you'd also get a 1st time DC since I don't see Bowles coming with Leftwich to make a lateral move.

 

But I do love your 1st point, and it may be the most important when looking at the next candidate. Fields would be a fantastic fit with what Leftwich has shown he can do with an offense in the last 3-4 years.

Yea, and antectodally, Bowles also was not successful in bringing staff with him when he left Arians.

[jumbo]

I read a ood article on the Athletic about Josh McDaniels and it had me convinced that I would be happy if the Bears signed him. The main points were his handling of Mac Jones this year and his ability to adapt a scheme to any QB's strengths/weaknesses. I've also heard that he loved Fields in his scouting work for last year's draft, so there may be some interest on his part in Fields.

 

If he did come I would think he would be a coach who has to be at the top of the organizational chart. He's not coming in to work under Pace, he will want to hire/bring his own guy. That woudn't bother me, either.

 

I was talking to someone here in the office about Pace and the best way I could sum him up was that I think he's an average enough GM that we're not going to automatically get someone materially better than him, but I woud prefer a different flavor of GM. One who has a couple guiding principles of valuing draft picks more, only signing players over 30 if they are the last piece of a championship team, I could go on but the point is that if the coach comes at the expense of Pace I am for it.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I read a ood article on the Athletic about Josh McDaniels and it had me convinced that I would be happy if the Bears signed him. The main points were his handling of Mac Jones this year and his ability to adapt a scheme to any QB's strengths/weaknesses. I've also heard that he loved Fields in his scouting work for last year's draft, so there may be some interest on his part in Fields.

 

.....

 

which is just about the opposite of his approach in Denver....and really everything I've held against him

 

I don't see why McDaniel's would get to choose his GM, however.