Soriano is NOT a leadoff hitter.

[DivineBovine]

The Cubs keep giving away runs by not having Soriano in the middle of the lineup. Not to beat a dead horse, because I know a lot of people here agree with me. But it gets me sick everytime I see a box score and see him batting first. I hope they realize it soon.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The Cubs keep giving away runs by not having Soriano in the middle of the lineup. Not to beat a dead horse, because I know a lot of people here agree with me. But it gets me sick everytime I see a box score and see him batting first. I hope they realize it soon.

 

He is a significantly better hitter in the 1 spot. He has an OBP over .360 in that spot this year. It's really not a problem.

[DivineBovine]

Tiger, that is way too small a sample size. If we could guarantee he hits .360 if he bats leadoff, that's one thing, but we can't. He has rarely bat leadoff before.

 

The fact is, he has 9 lousy RBI going in despite 14 doubles and 4 homers. It's an absolute waste. And he is not historically an OBP guy as it is. It sucks that he keeps coming up after the 8 and 9 hitters. It's killing a stength of our team. It's Dusty Bakeresque to think speed=leadoff.

 

I'd put DLee at #2 before I put Soriano at #1. I'd go Lee, Soriano, Ramirez or Soriano, Lee, Ramirez at 345.

[Drew Doughty]

he's historically much better at leading off. it's not just this year. It's his best spot in the order by 50 OPS points. i don't know why, but it's just the way his career has worked out.

[CubColtPacer]

Tiger, that is way too small a sample size. If we could guarantee he hits .360 if he bats leadoff, that's one thing, but we can't. He has rarely bat leadoff before.

 

The fact is, he has 9 lousy RBI going in despite 14 doubles and 4 homers. It's an absolute waste. And he is not historically an OBP guy as it is. It sucks that he keeps coming up after the 8 and 9 hitters. It's killing a stength of our team. It's Dusty Bakeresque to think speed=leadoff.

 

I'd put DLee at #2 before I put Soriano at #1. I'd go Lee, Soriano, Ramirez or Soriano, Lee, Ramirez at 345.

 

He hasn't rarely batted leadoff. In fact, he has batted leadoff most of his career. He has 2186 at-bats in the leadoff spot, and the next highest number from any spot is 630 from the 3rd spot.

[DivineBovine]

Tiger, that is way too small a sample size. If we could guarantee he hits .360 if he bats leadoff, that's one thing, but we can't. He has rarely bat leadoff before.

 

The fact is, he has 9 lousy RBI going in despite 14 doubles and 4 homers. It's an absolute waste. And he is not historically an OBP guy as it is. It sucks that he keeps coming up after the 8 and 9 hitters. It's killing a stength of our team. It's Dusty Bakeresque to think speed=leadoff.

 

I'd put DLee at #2 before I put Soriano at #1. I'd go Lee, Soriano, Ramirez or Soriano, Lee, Ramirez at 345.

 

He hasn't rarely batted leadoff. In fact, he has batted leadoff most of his career. He has 2186 at-bats in the leadoff spot, and the next highest number from any spot is 630 from the 3rd spot.

 

Oh, I guess I overlooked the Yankee years. But are where are those stats from? There are a lot of hitters who would bat better in the Yankee lineup, regardless of where they hit.

 

I still think its absurd. There is plenty of protection in the lineup from Lee and Ramirez. There's just no need to put a pitcher and #8 hitter in front of him.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Tiger, that is way too small a sample size. If we could guarantee he hits .360 if he bats leadoff, that's one thing, but we can't. He has rarely bat leadoff before.

 

The fact is, he has 9 lousy RBI going in despite 14 doubles and 4 homers. It's an absolute waste. And he is not historically an OBP guy as it is. It sucks that he keeps coming up after the 8 and 9 hitters. It's killing a stength of our team. It's Dusty Bakeresque to think speed=leadoff.

 

I'd put DLee at #2 before I put Soriano at #1. I'd go Lee, Soriano, Ramirez or Soriano, Lee, Ramirez at 345.

 

He hasn't rarely batted leadoff. In fact, he has batted leadoff most of his career. He has 2186 at-bats in the leadoff spot, and the next highest number from any spot is 630 from the 3rd spot.

 

Oh, I guess I overlooked the Yankee years. But are where are those stats from? There are a lot of hitters who would bat better in the Yankee lineup, regardless of where they hit.

 

I still think its absurd. There is plenty of protection in the lineup from Lee and Ramirez. There's just no need to put a pitcher and #8 hitter in front of him.

 

 

2004(Texas): .907 OPS batting leadoff(~75 PA's), .808 OPS total

2005(Texas): .781 OPS batting leadoff(~110 PA's), .821 OPS total

2006(Washington): .956 OPS batting leadoff(~675 PA's), .911 OPS total

2007(Chicago): .859 OPS batting leadoff(~145 PA's), .817 OPS total

[cubfan1955]

I'd rather see him moved out of the leadoff spot too if Theriot can adequately bat leadoff. I think if a manager would put him in the 3-4-5 area and just leave him there he would hit. A good hitter will hit no matter where he is in the lineup. It's not like trying it is going to jeopardize our World Series chances this year.

[Yestheydo]

I'd rather see him moved out of the leadoff spot too if Theriot can adequately bat leadoff. I think if a manager would put him in the 3-4-5 area and just leave him there he would hit. A good hitter will hit no matter where he is in the lineup. It's not like trying it is going to jeopardize our World Series chances this year.

 

What's so difficult to understand about the idea that Soriano leading off is not only not this team's problem, but moving him would be flat out stupid, given his history?

 

You fix the bullpen, this team has an excellent chance. The Brewers aren't running away with it anymore. And Piniella has shown that nobody is safe and he'll try anything to fix things. I may be stupid but I'm really starting to get excited about this team.

[cubfan1955]

I'd rather see him moved out of the leadoff spot too if Theriot can adequately bat leadoff. I think if a manager would put him in the 3-4-5 area and just leave him there he would hit. A good hitter will hit no matter where he is in the lineup. It's not like trying it is going to jeopardize our World Series chances this year.

 

What's so difficult to understand about the idea that Soriano leading off is not only not this team's problem, but moving him would be flat out stupid, given his history?

 

You fix the bullpen, this team has an excellent chance. The Brewers aren't running away with it anymore. And Piniella has shown that nobody is safe and he'll try anything to fix things. I may be stupid but I'm really starting to get excited about this team.

The offense IS one of the problems. Even a bigger problem than the bullpen. Give the bullpen some runs to work with and you won't see them imploding every freaking game. Las night was the exception rather than the rule.

[bhogg]

I'm sure this is a terrible terrible terrible reason, but here goes. . . .

 

In my mlb07 season, Soriano was dominating but not getting many RBI. One problem was that he was dependant upon the 6-8 spots getting on for RBI chances. Typicall, his chances were with 2 outs (occasionally with 1, but very rarely with none out). That means, there were virtually no sac flies, ground outs, etc that pushed a run across.

 

Also, he rarely had any kind of proetction behind him so I found myself trying to hit junk pitches in his RBI spots. Very tough.

 

My solution was to hit him 2nd or 3rd. It helped a bunch, but alas, it is but a video game :(

 

 

Oh, the bullpen blows in the video game, too.

[Shilzzz]

people still argue this?

 

HENDRY PROMISED SORIANO HE WOULD LEADOFF WHEN HE SIGNED HIM.

 

so, indeed, soriano IS a leadoff hitter.

[Derwood]

people still argue this?

 

HENDRY PROMISED SORIANO HE WOULD LEADOFF WHEN HE SIGNED HIM.

 

so, indeed, soriano IS a leadoff hitter.

 

exactly

[frostwyrm]

Tiger, that is way too small a sample size. If we could guarantee he hits .360 if he bats leadoff, that's one thing, but we can't. He has rarely bat leadoff before.

 

The fact is, he has 9 lousy RBI going in despite 14 doubles and 4 homers. It's an absolute waste. And he is not historically an OBP guy as it is. It sucks that he keeps coming up after the 8 and 9 hitters. It's killing a stength of our team. It's Dusty Bakeresque to think speed=leadoff.

 

I'd put DLee at #2 before I put Soriano at #1. I'd go Lee, Soriano, Ramirez or Soriano, Lee, Ramirez at 345.

 

He hasn't rarely batted leadoff. In fact, he has batted leadoff most of his career. He has 2186 at-bats in the leadoff spot, and the next highest number from any spot is 630 from the 3rd spot.

 

Oh, I guess I overlooked the Yankee years. But are where are those stats from? There are a lot of hitters who would bat better in the Yankee lineup, regardless of where they hit.

 

I still think its absurd. There is plenty of protection in the lineup from Lee and Ramirez. There's just no need to put a pitcher and #8 hitter in front of him.

 

 

2004(Texas): .907 OPS batting leadoff(~75 PA's), .808 OPS total

2005(Texas): .781 OPS batting leadoff(~110 PA's), .821 OPS total

2006(Washington): .956 OPS batting leadoff(~675 PA's), .911 OPS total

2007(Chicago): .859 OPS batting leadoff(~145 PA's), .817 OPS total

 

This is one of the reasons I don't like Soriano's contract. He is being paid huge $$ largely for his power, yet he bats in a slot that greatly devalues power. It's just not a good allocation of resources to pay a guy $17M per year for a bunch of solo HRs.

[cubfan1955]

Any GM paying the kind of money Soriano is making to be a leadoff hitter is insane. Money like that is power and RBI money. We want to spend that kind of money we need some production out of it. Sure he is and will continue to be a good leafoff guy. We've had much worse but as others have mentioned it's a waste of resources. Now subtract Jones from the lineup and insert Cabrera and I might change my mind.

[TB_11]

Tiger, that is way too small a sample size. If we could guarantee he hits .360 if he bats leadoff, that's one thing, but we can't. He has rarely bat leadoff before.

 

The fact is, he has 9 lousy RBI going in despite 14 doubles and 4 homers. It's an absolute waste. And he is not historically an OBP guy as it is. It sucks that he keeps coming up after the 8 and 9 hitters. It's killing a stength of our team. It's Dusty Bakeresque to think speed=leadoff.

 

I'd put DLee at #2 before I put Soriano at #1. I'd go Lee, Soriano, Ramirez or Soriano, Lee, Ramirez at 345.

 

He hasn't rarely batted leadoff. In fact, he has batted leadoff most of his career. He has 2186 at-bats in the leadoff spot, and the next highest number from any spot is 630 from the 3rd spot.

 

Oh, I guess I overlooked the Yankee years. But are where are those stats from? There are a lot of hitters who would bat better in the Yankee lineup, regardless of where they hit.

 

I still think its absurd. There is plenty of protection in the lineup from Lee and Ramirez. There's just no need to put a pitcher and #8 hitter in front of him.

 

 

2004(Texas): .907 OPS batting leadoff(~75 PA's), .808 OPS total

2005(Texas): .781 OPS batting leadoff(~110 PA's), .821 OPS total

2006(Washington): .956 OPS batting leadoff(~675 PA's), .911 OPS total

2007(Chicago): .859 OPS batting leadoff(~145 PA's), .817 OPS total

 

Has there been any analysis done to see if the difference in OPS (or maybe just the SLG component) is enough to justify Soriano having fewer PAs with runners on? To take it to extreme, if his OPS was .850 leading off, but .845 batting fourth, it would make complete sense to drop him in the lineup to take advantage of his SLG since he'll have more PAs with runners on.

[RichHillIsABeast]

I really don't mind Soriano in the leadoff spot. He's getting on base at an ok clip. His strikeouts don't hurt you as much batting leadoff (i.e. failing to move a runner along or score a runner in scoring position).

[Mephistopheles]

Leadoff hitting is not a position. He's a hitter. He's the third best hitter on the team and that makes him the second best choice for hitting lead off on the team.

[wilk]

Soriano hits best from the leadoff spot. He hits better with no one on base than with runners on. He hits best when happiest and most comfortable and leadoff is where that is. He is our best base stealing threat and top 2 in power and leadoff gives him the most chances. It's really this simple.