Jim Edmonds Certain HOF ??

[K-Town]

He's borderline, in my opinion.

 

For comparison sake on a Cubs' board, Edmonds has put up numbers similar to Ron Santo, and Edmonds has done it at a position that you traditionally don't get great offensive numbers from. Those who believe that Santo belongs would also have to consider Edmonds.

 

I agree with most here, that Edmonds needs a couple of more really productive years to be considered.

Edited April 25, 2006 by K-Town

[gus_dog]

Probably. Not on the first ballot, but his body of work, IMO, is HOF-worthy.

 

The big question is will his HOF plaque have eyeliner? :lol:

[jjgman21]

He's borderline, in my opinion.

 

For comparison sake on a Cubs' board, Edmonds has put up numbers similar to Ron Santo, and Edmonds has done it at a position that you traditionally don't get great offensive numbers from. Those who believe that Santo belongs would also have to consider Edmonds.

 

I agree with most here, that Edmonds needs a couple of more really productive years to be considered.

 

ummmm....

 

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/lists/pos&3B.htm

 

how many of those guys you heard of? probably 5. maybe 8 if you are a bit of a baseball historian, which I suspect you are not by the comment above. how many were great offensive players? I would think 4 of them, unless you include Homerun Baker, who was a dominant offensive player...during WWI.

 

vs.

 

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/lists/pos&CF.htm

 

ever heard of many of these guys? only about 10 or so of the top 100 offensive players in the history of baseball.

 

if by traditional you mean the 1980's, then you may have a bit of a valid argument. if you are talking the rest of the history of baseball, centerfield has always been a position of great offensive players, and you're pretty much dead wrong.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

An update:

 

I need to make a correction to last week's Jim Edmonds piece. It was pointed out to me that Jay Jaffe modified his calculation of the JAWS score, taking into account a longer peak that wasn't defined by consecutive seasons. I calculated Edmonds' peak using the original, five-consecutive-year definition.
Under the new method, the Hall of Fame vs. Jimmy looks like this:

NEW        BRAR BRAA FRAA  Career  Peak   JAWS
Avg HOF CF  731  478    0  108.8   63.4   86.1
Edmonds     555  371  106   98.3   78.2   88.3

*JAWS: (Career WARP + Peak WARP) / 2
Edmonds is already comparable to the average Hall of Fame center fielder. If he retired today, he'd be a good candidate for induction. He's likely to add to his case over the next few seasons, and will retire as a clear Hall of Famer.

 

I think some posters on here are discounting his defense and the fact the he played CF. That said, he's no slamdunk.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

An update:

 

I need to make a correction to last week's Jim Edmonds piece. It was pointed out to me that Jay Jaffe modified his calculation of the JAWS score, taking into account a longer peak that wasn't defined by consecutive seasons. I calculated Edmonds' peak using the original, five-consecutive-year definition.
Under the new method, the Hall of Fame vs. Jimmy looks like this:

NEW        BRAR BRAA FRAA  Career  Peak   JAWS
Avg HOF CF  731  478    0  108.8   63.4   86.1
Edmonds     555  371  106   98.3   78.2   88.3

*JAWS: (Career WARP + Peak WARP) / 2
Edmonds is already comparable to the average Hall of Fame center fielder. If he retired today, he'd be a good candidate for induction. He's likely to add to his case over the next few seasons, and will retire as a clear Hall of Famer.

 

I think some posters on here are discounting his defense and the fact the he played CF. That said, he's no slamdunk.

 

I hate Jim Edmonds because he's with the Cardinals, but he has been an extremly good player throughout a long career. I'd say he's very borderline now because of the inflated offensive numbers throughout baseball over the past 10-15 years. I would not be shocked if Jimmy made it, as I would not be surprised if he did not. Saying he will retire as a clear Hall of Famer is quite a stretch.

[jjgman21]

while were at it, let's elect Larry Walker and Brian Giles too. might as well add David Justice and Moises Alou too, because after Edmonds' decline years, his career OPS+ will be about the same as them too. Bobby Abreu...a shoe in. all the offense, all the defense, and speed too!

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Edmonds has 8 gold gloves. That's where he gets an edge over who you listed (except Walker).

[jjgman21]

Edmonds has 8 gold gloves. That's where he gets an edge over who you listed (except Walker).

 

I know that is considered by the HOF voters, but it is so completely irrelevant. see Palmiero's GG when he was a DH, and Jeter's two GGs. and like I pointed out, Abreu every bit the defender, probably better, and racked up a bunch of stolen bases in his career.

 

career OPS+

Abreu 138

Edmonds 138

 

so if you say yes to Edmonds, you have to say yes to Abreu, right?

 

now is Bobby Abreu a sure fire HOFer? neither is Edmonds.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

so if you say yes to Edmonds, you have to say yes to Abreu, right?

 

No.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I agree that Edmonds and Abreu are similar players with similar skills. I wouldn't put either in the HOF right now.

 

But if one goes it does make a great argument for the other.

[K-Town]

Edmonds has 8 gold gloves. That's where he gets an edge over who you listed (except Walker).

 

I know that is considered by the HOF voters, but it is so completely irrelevant. see Palmiero's GG when he was a DH, and Jeter's two GGs. and like I pointed out, Abreu every bit the defender, probably better, and racked up a bunch of stolen bases in his career.

 

career OPS+

Abreu 138

Edmonds 138

 

so if you say yes to Edmonds, you have to say yes to Abreu, right?

 

now is Bobby Abreu a sure fire HOFer? neither is Edmonds.

 

Kirby Puckett got in with a career OPS+ of 124. Dave Winfield got in with a career OPS+ of 129. Carl Yastrzemski was 130. Reggie Jackson was 139, and never won a Gold Glove. Eddie Murray was 129.

 

That doesn't mean that Edmonds is a lock, by any stretch. But you have to consider it.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Edmonds has 8 gold gloves. That's where he gets an edge over who you listed (except Walker).

 

I know that is considered by the HOF voters, but it is so completely irrelevant. see Palmiero's GG when he was a DH, and Jeter's two GGs. and like I pointed out, Abreu every bit the defender, probably better, and racked up a bunch of stolen bases in his career.

 

career OPS+

Abreu 138

Edmonds 138

 

so if you say yes to Edmonds, you have to say yes to Abreu, right?

 

now is Bobby Abreu a sure fire HOFer? neither is Edmonds.

 

Kirby Puckett got in with a career OPS+ of 124. Dave Winfield got in with a career OPS+ of 129. Carl Yastrzemski was 130. Reggie Jackson was 139, and never won a Gold Glove. Eddie Murray was 129.

 

That doesn't mean that Edmonds is a lock, by any stretch. But you have to consider it.

 

Reggie had 500 HRs and Murray 500 HR + 3,000 hits. Winfield also joined the 3000 hit club. Like it or not, those guys get enshrined on those numbers alone. I've always contended that Puckett didn't belong, and I don't think Edmonds has the "aura" that Puckett had. Belle's numbers looked as good as Puckett and he didn't get a sniff. Yaz had a triple crown on his resume which helped him get enshrined.

 

If Edmonds can get 3000 hits or 500 HRS like Murray, Winfield, or Jackson he's in. If he can win a triple crown like Yaz or make everyone love him like Puckett, then he's in. Short of that, I don't think the voters will see Jimmy Maybeline as a HOFer.

[erik316wttn]

Good player? Yes. Good defense (notice I didn't say "great)? Yes. All-Star? Yes.

 

Hall of Famer? No bleepin' way. If he gets in before Andre Dawson it would be a crime.

[jjgman21]

Edmonds has 8 gold gloves. That's where he gets an edge over who you listed (except Walker).

 

I know that is considered by the HOF voters, but it is so completely irrelevant. see Palmiero's GG when he was a DH, and Jeter's two GGs. and like I pointed out, Abreu every bit the defender, probably better, and racked up a bunch of stolen bases in his career.

 

career OPS+

Abreu 138

Edmonds 138

 

so if you say yes to Edmonds, you have to say yes to Abreu, right?

 

now is Bobby Abreu a sure fire HOFer? neither is Edmonds.

 

Kirby Puckett got in with a career OPS+ of 124. Dave Winfield got in with a career OPS+ of 129. Carl Yastrzemski was 130. Reggie Jackson was 139, and never won a Gold Glove. Eddie Murray was 129.

 

That doesn't mean that Edmonds is a lock, by any stretch. But you have to consider it.

 

you also have to consider those were career numbers that do not include the inevitable decline years at the end. all of those players with the exception of Puckett (why does he get in on the sympathy vote, but Santo is excluded because the voters don't want to look like they are giving sympathy votes?) had a few clunker years at the end that dragged their numbers down. Murray had six or seven of those years.

 

Fred Lynn. some of the greatest defensive centerfielder play for a good six or seven year stretch. career OPS+ of 130. HOF'er? neither is Edmonds.

[K-Town]

Edmonds has 8 gold gloves. That's where he gets an edge over who you listed (except Walker).

 

I know that is considered by the HOF voters, but it is so completely irrelevant. see Palmiero's GG when he was a DH, and Jeter's two GGs. and like I pointed out, Abreu every bit the defender, probably better, and racked up a bunch of stolen bases in his career.

 

career OPS+

Abreu 138

Edmonds 138

 

so if you say yes to Edmonds, you have to say yes to Abreu, right?

 

now is Bobby Abreu a sure fire HOFer? neither is Edmonds.

 

Kirby Puckett got in with a career OPS+ of 124. Dave Winfield got in with a career OPS+ of 129. Carl Yastrzemski was 130. Reggie Jackson was 139, and never won a Gold Glove. Eddie Murray was 129.

 

That doesn't mean that Edmonds is a lock, by any stretch. But you have to consider it.

 

you also have to consider those were career numbers that do not include the inevitable decline years at the end. all of those players with the exception of Puckett (why does he get in on the sympathy vote, but Santo is excluded because the voters don't want to look like they are giving sympathy votes?) had a few clunker years at the end that dragged their numbers down. Murray had six or seven of those years.

 

Fred Lynn. some of the greatest defensive centerfielder play for a good six or seven year stretch. career OPS+ of 130. HOF'er? neither is Edmonds.

 

 

I'm not really disagreeing with you. I definitely think he's got some work to do if he wants to get in. I'd definitely say it's a long shot, but it's worth discussing.

[LoneStarCubFan]

 

or make everyone love him like Puckett, then he's in.

 

Puckett also played on two World Series winners and almost single-handedly willed his team to one of them with one of the greatest single-game pressure performances in my lifetime.

 

Edmonds hasn't sniffed that and never will. And Puckett was light years better as a center fielder.

 

Getting on Sportscenter by intentionally taking bad angles on balls and laying out when you don't need to doesn't make you a Hall of Famer. But it will trick people into thinking you're a Gold Glover.