[nilodnayr]

Ok....forget the wins part. Although everyone will jump and down and point if he becomes a 20 game winner.......wins are not important if you get 10 of them....but they are if you get 20.

 

My point is.....doesn't Prior have to be a totally dominating pitcher to live up to expectations at this point? Clemons, Johnson, Schilling, Ryan, etc....sort of dominant? Anything less will be a disappointment....and certainly not warrant the type of gnashing of teeth presented here in the last few days over the discussion of possibly trading him.

 

Show me the last pitcher who had a mediocre season and won 20 games. Pitching very well is a pre-req for winning 20 games.

[Sarcastic]

Ok....forget the wins part. Although everyone will jump and down and point if he becomes a 20 game winner.......wins are not important if you get 10 of them....but they are if you get 20.

 

My point is.....doesn't Prior have to be a totally dominating pitcher to live up to expectations at this point? Clemons, Johnson, Schilling, Ryan, etc....sort of dominant? Anything less will be a disappointment....and certainly not warrant the type of gnashing of teeth presented here in the last few days over the discussion of possibly trading him.

 

Show me the last pitcher who had a mediocre season and won 20 games. Pitching very well is a pre-req for winning 20 games.

 

Usually it is, but I think we can agree that that still doesn't make it the best way to judge a pitcher. I probably would get excited if Prior won 20 games, but only because it is a cool milestone that I think he would deserve if he managed to pull it off on this team..

[rickrolled]

Ok....forget the wins part. Although everyone will jump and down and point if he becomes a 20 game winner.......wins are not important if you get 10 of them....but they are if you get 20.

 

My point is.....doesn't Prior have to be a totally dominating pitcher to live up to expectations at this point? Clemons, Johnson, Schilling, Ryan, etc....sort of dominant? Anything less will be a disappointment....and certainly not warrant the type of gnashing of teeth presented here in the last few days over the discussion of possibly trading him.

 

Show me the last pitcher who had a mediocre season and won 20 games. Pitching very well is a pre-req for winning 20 games.

 

Russ Ortiz in 2003.

[nilodnayr]

Ok....forget the wins part. Although everyone will jump and down and point if he becomes a 20 game winner.......wins are not important if you get 10 of them....but they are if you get 20.

 

My point is.....doesn't Prior have to be a totally dominating pitcher to live up to expectations at this point? Clemons, Johnson, Schilling, Ryan, etc....sort of dominant? Anything less will be a disappointment....and certainly not warrant the type of gnashing of teeth presented here in the last few days over the discussion of possibly trading him.

 

Show me the last pitcher who had a mediocre season and won 20 games. Pitching very well is a pre-req for winning 20 games.

 

Russ Ortiz in 2003.

 

Damnit, ok show me the last one before him.

[Outshined_One]

Ok....forget the wins part. Although everyone will jump and down and point if he becomes a 20 game winner.......wins are not important if you get 10 of them....but they are if you get 20.

 

My point is.....doesn't Prior have to be a totally dominating pitcher to live up to expectations at this point? Clemons, Johnson, Schilling, Ryan, etc....sort of dominant? Anything less will be a disappointment....and certainly not warrant the type of gnashing of teeth presented here in the last few days over the discussion of possibly trading him.

 

Show me the last pitcher who had a mediocre season and won 20 games. Pitching very well is a pre-req for winning 20 games.

 

Russ Ortiz in 2003.

 

Damnit, ok show me the last one before him.

 

Does Andy Pettitte in 2003 count? How about in 2000, when he had 19 wins? 1996?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Ok....forget the wins part. Although everyone will jump and down and point if he becomes a 20 game winner.......wins are not important if you get 10 of them....but they are if you get 20.

 

My point is.....doesn't Prior have to be a totally dominating pitcher to live up to expectations at this point? Clemons, Johnson, Schilling, Ryan, etc....sort of dominant? Anything less will be a disappointment....and certainly not warrant the type of gnashing of teeth presented here in the last few days over the discussion of possibly trading him.

 

Show me the last pitcher who had a mediocre season and won 20 games. Pitching very well is a pre-req for winning 20 games.

 

Russ Ortiz in 2003.

 

Damnit, ok show me the last one before him.

 

Same year, Andy Pettitte

[Outshined_One]

Oh! Oh! I found more! 2001, for example:

 

Tim Hudson: 20-6, 4.14 ERA

David Wells: 20-8, 4.11 ERA

Darryl Kile: 20-9, 3.91 ERA

[nilodnayr]

Oh! Oh! I found more! 2001, for example:

 

Tim Hudson: 20-6, 4.14 ERA

David Wells: 20-8, 4.11 ERA

Darryl Kile: 20-9, 3.91 ERA

 

I officially rescind my statement. And wow!

[Diffusion]

Ok....forget the wins part. Although everyone will jump and down and point if he becomes a 20 game winner.......wins are not important if you get 10 of them....but they are if you get 20.

 

My point is.....doesn't Prior have to be a totally dominating pitcher to live up to expectations at this point? Clemons, Johnson, Schilling, Ryan, etc....sort of dominant? Anything less will be a disappointment....and certainly not warrant the type of gnashing of teeth presented here in the last few days over the discussion of possibly trading him.

 

Show me the last pitcher who had a mediocre season and won 20 games. Pitching very well is a pre-req for winning 20 games.

 

Russ Ortiz in 2003.

 

Damnit, ok show me the last one before him.

 

Pitchers with >20 wins, ERA > 3.80, 1986-2005

 

Russ Ortiz, 2003, 21 wins, 3.81 ERA for Braves

Andy Pettitte, 2003, 21 wins, 4.02 ERA for Yankees

Jon Lieber, 2001, 20 wins, 3.80 ERA for Cubs

Tim Hudson, 2000, 20 wins, 4.14 ERA for A's

Darryl Kile, 2000, 20 wins, 3.91 ERA for Cardinals

David Wells, 2000, 20 wins, 4.11 ERA for BlueJays

Rick Helling, 1998, 20 wins, 4.41 ERA for Rangers

Brad Radke, 1997, 20 wins, 3.87 ERA for Twins

Bill Gullickson, 1991, 20 wins, 3.90 ERA for Tigers

[Outshined_One]

Pitchers with >20 wins, ERA > 3.80, 1986-2005

 

Russ Ortiz, 2003, 21 wins, 3.81 ERA for Braves

Andy Pettitte, 2003, 21 wins, 4.02 ERA for Yankees

Jon Lieber, 2001, 20 wins, 3.80 ERA for Cubs

Tim Hudson, 2000, 20 wins, 4.14 ERA for A's

Darryl Kile, 2000, 20 wins, 3.91 ERA for Cardinals

David Wells, 2000, 20 wins, 4.11 ERA for BlueJays

Rick Helling, 1998, 20 wins, 4.41 ERA for Rangers

Brad Radke, 1997, 20 wins, 3.87 ERA for Twins

Bill Gullickson, 1991, 20 wins, 3.90 ERA for Tigers

 

Interesting. So there were no 20 game winners with a >3.80 ERA from 1986-1990 and 1992-1996? Hm.

 

I don't have much to add to this post, but just found the results interesting.

[Diffusion]

Pitchers with >20 wins, ERA > 3.80, 1986-2005

 

Russ Ortiz, 2003, 21 wins, 3.81 ERA for Braves

Andy Pettitte, 2003, 21 wins, 4.02 ERA for Yankees

Jon Lieber, 2001, 20 wins, 3.80 ERA for Cubs

Tim Hudson, 2000, 20 wins, 4.14 ERA for A's

Darryl Kile, 2000, 20 wins, 3.91 ERA for Cardinals

David Wells, 2000, 20 wins, 4.11 ERA for BlueJays

Rick Helling, 1998, 20 wins, 4.41 ERA for Rangers

Brad Radke, 1997, 20 wins, 3.87 ERA for Twins

Bill Gullickson, 1991, 20 wins, 3.90 ERA for Tigers

 

Interesting. So there were no 20 game winners with a >3.80 ERA from 1986-1990 and 1992-1996? Hm.

 

I don't have much to add to this post, but just found the results interesting.

 

Yep. The shortened 1994/95 seasons probably help explain the second period a little.

[RynoRules]

And didn't Welch have a mediocre ERA the year he won 27 for the A's?

 

EDIT: Bah, nevermind. It was 2.95.

[10man]

It's not 20 games but Kenny Rogers was 18-9 with a 4.76 ERA and a 1.48 WHIP for Texas in 2004. OUCH! I'd say that's very mediocre.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

It's not 20 games but Kenny Rogers was 18-9 with a 4.76 ERA and a 1.48 WHIP for Texas in 2004. OUCH! I'd say that's very mediocre.

 

Mediocre? Nah. Ugly as all get out? Yep. I guess that's what happens when you get eleventy runs of support a game.

[nolanwood]

It's not 20 games but Kenny Rogers was 18-9 with a 4.76 ERA and a 1.48 WHIP for Texas in 2004. OUCH! I'd say that's very mediocre.

 

the '04 Rogers reference was exactly what I thought I'd incorporate in this thread until I got down to your post.....

 

I think that's about as bad as it gets for an 18 game winner.