vance_the_cubs_fan

2006 WHIP Zambrano: 1.29 Marshall: 1.52 Career WHIP Zambrano: 1.28 Marshall: 1.44 Marshall still holds the edge for 2007 based on a few nice starts, but that margin is closing fast and will probably disappear within the next 2 starts Still, Z led the league in walks. Doesn't say much for him and those whip is mostly hits for Marshall and walks for Z. Z's control doesn't look to improve but Marshall's "stuff" does. And even if Zambrano doesn't improve his control, he's still a better pitcher than Marshall. Even with Zambrano's control issues, he's still had those awesome seasons. Even with what you call great control by Marshall, his best would be the worst full season Zambrano has seen in 5 years! And when Marshall has those 5 years of experience we'll see whose better. All we're doing now is debating without fair statistical comparison. But in a lot of ways we are. We can compare each player to the other at the same age. When Zambrano was Marshall's age, he was dominating major league hitters. I'm trying to take you seriously, but it's laughable to think Marshall is now or ever will reach the level of pitching that Zambrano has achieved. I'm not asking you to agree with me i'm just giving my opinion, and on paper Marshall deserves all star more than Z. Well, Zambrano may not have deserved the ASG. That's debateable. But Marshall's 8 starts of 3.50 ERA doesn't make him all-star worthy in any shape or form...and in now way makes him a better pitcher now, in the past, or in the future than Zambrano. If you were using hyperbole to state your love for Marshall, you should have dropped the inane arguments a long time ago. Because if you think Marshall really is better than Zambrano, I'm having trouble wondering if this is the first year you've actually followed baseball. No, it's not. Then you should observe things a little more closely. Marshall is in no way the pitcher Zambrano is.

Ok. Did you miss my point? Theriot is 27 years old. When he was the same age as Cedeno, he was plying his trade in single A. Cedeno was 23 last season when you said he sucked, yet Theriot is just having growing pains. If anything, the opposite is true. Theriot at 27 is likely at his peak, since most players begin their peak at 27. His peak is below average. Cedeno didn't perform last year. That is true, but he was 23 years old. What Cedeno is hitting at AAA, Theriot hasn't approached at any level. So, if Theriot is experiencing growing pains, then Cedeno is too. Are you really this dense, or do you just get a hard on for a player and can't see the truth? They have relatively the same ML experience. Holy Jesus son, are you really that dense! So, if I take a 13 year old and place him on the varsity baseball team with a 17 year old who had to play JV his whole high school career and is finally on varsity....if the 17 year old out performed the 13 year old, you'd really think that his ceiling was higher based on that? This is a simple concept. One my 11-year-old nephew can grasp. Why is it so hard for you? Theriot is 27. Cedeno is 24. When Cedeno was up here last season he was 4 years younger than Theriot is now. When Theriot was the same age as Cedeno is now, he in no way, shape or form looked like a major leaguer.

2006 WHIP Zambrano: 1.29 Marshall: 1.52 Career WHIP Zambrano: 1.28 Marshall: 1.44 Marshall still holds the edge for 2007 based on a few nice starts, but that margin is closing fast and will probably disappear within the next 2 starts Still, Z led the league in walks. Doesn't say much for him and those whip is mostly hits for Marshall and walks for Z. Z's control doesn't look to improve but Marshall's "stuff" does. And even if Zambrano doesn't improve his control, he's still a better pitcher than Marshall. Even with Zambrano's control issues, he's still had those awesome seasons. Even with what you call great control by Marshall, his best would be the worst full season Zambrano has seen in 5 years! And when Marshall has those 5 years of experience we'll see whose better. All we're doing now is debating without fair statistical comparison. But in a lot of ways we are. We can compare each player to the other at the same age. When Zambrano was Marshall's age, he was dominating major league hitters. I'm trying to take you seriously, but it's laughable to think Marshall is now or ever will reach the level of pitching that Zambrano has achieved. I'm not asking you to agree with me i'm just giving my opinion, and on paper Marshall deserves all star more than Z. Well, Zambrano may not have deserved the ASG. That's debateable. But Marshall's 8 starts of 3.50 ERA doesn't make him all-star worthy in any shape or form...and in now way makes him a better pitcher now, in the past, or in the future than Zambrano. If you were using hyperbole to state your love for Marshall, you should have dropped the inane arguments a long time ago. Because if you think Marshall really is better than Zambrano, I'm having trouble wondering if this is the first year you've actually followed baseball.

2006 WHIP Zambrano: 1.29 Marshall: 1.52 Career WHIP Zambrano: 1.28 Marshall: 1.44 Marshall still holds the edge for 2007 based on a few nice starts, but that margin is closing fast and will probably disappear within the next 2 starts Still, Z led the league in walks. Doesn't say much for him and those whip is mostly hits for Marshall and walks for Z. Z's control doesn't look to improve but Marshall's "stuff" does. And even if Zambrano doesn't improve his control, he's still a better pitcher than Marshall. Even with Zambrano's control issues, he's still had those awesome seasons. Even with what you call great control by Marshall, his best would be the worst full season Zambrano has seen in 5 years! And when Marshall has those 5 years of experience we'll see whose better. All we're doing now is debating without fair statistical comparison. But in a lot of ways we are. We can compare each player to the other at the same age. When Zambrano was Marshall's age, he was dominating major league hitters. I'm trying to take you seriously, but it's laughable to think Marshall is now or ever will reach the level of pitching that Zambrano has achieved.

Ok. Did you miss my point? Theriot is 27 years old. When he was the same age as Cedeno, he was plying his trade in single A. Cedeno was 23 last season when you said he sucked, yet Theriot is just having growing pains. If anything, the opposite is true. Theriot at 27 is likely at his peak, since most players begin their peak at 27. His peak is below average. Cedeno didn't perform last year. That is true, but he was 23 years old. What Cedeno is hitting at AAA, Theriot hasn't approached at any level. So, if Theriot is experiencing growing pains, then Cedeno is too. Are you really this dense, or do you just get a hard on for a player and can't see the truth?

2006 WHIP Zambrano: 1.29 Marshall: 1.52 Career WHIP Zambrano: 1.28 Marshall: 1.44 Marshall still holds the edge for 2007 based on a few nice starts, but that margin is closing fast and will probably disappear within the next 2 starts Still, Z led the league in walks. Doesn't say much for him and those whip is mostly hits for Marshall and walks for Z. Z's control doesn't look to improve but Marshall's "stuff" does. And even if Zambrano doesn't improve his control, he's still a better pitcher than Marshall. Even with Zambrano's control issues, he's still had those awesome seasons. Even with what you call great control by Marshall, his best would be the worst full season Zambrano has seen in 5 years!

I wouldn't pretend that, but he's definitely got a solid chance of outperforming what the Cubs have gotten out of SS so far this year. Yeah, it's not like we're getting great production out of the SS position anyway. At this point it's worth giving Ronny another shot. I'm all for a shot for Cedeno, I just don't expect much. I expect more than we're getting out of Theriot or Izturis. I'd hold up on the Theriot part, but I won't say that the talent isn't there in both, just Theriot been able to translate talent to well reality. 266/323/346 really isn't a great translation. I like Theriot...but let's not pretend he's really that good; he's not. He's young, he will have growing pains, that is inevitable but Cedeno didn't have growing pains he just plain sucked. Let me get this straight....Cedeno who is 27 is experiencing growing pains while Cedeno who played in the majors last season at only 22 just sucked. Would you like to guess what Theriot was doing when he was 22? How about hitting .252/335/313 in the midwest league. So, if Cedeno sucked at 22, Theriot was sub-suckage. You might want to quit now.

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season Not if Marshall does what he is capable of. If they both do what they are capable of, Zambrano will easily outperform Marshall. maybe. no, easily They're both capable of being aces. Marshall is capable of being Ted Lilly. Zambrano is capable of being one of the top five pitchers in the game. It's not even close. Lilly will never be an ace, Marshall might. Still Control is very important and Z doesn't posses it. And while control is important, stuff is just as important. Zambrano's pitches and ability to miss bats trumps Marshall in so many ways. The fact is when Marshall was 24 yrs old, he posted a 83 ERA+. When Zambrano was 24 years old, he posted a 131 ERA+ and had already had a season with a 165 ERA+. It's ok to be a Marshall fanboy if you want, but to assert that Marshall is any way equivalent in ability to Zambrano is stupidity at best and bordering on insanity.

I think even his mom wouldn't say he's better than Zambrano.

I wouldn't pretend that, but he's definitely got a solid chance of outperforming what the Cubs have gotten out of SS so far this year. Yeah, it's not like we're getting great production out of the SS position anyway. At this point it's worth giving Ronny another shot. I'm all for a shot for Cedeno, I just don't expect much. I expect more than we're getting out of Theriot or Izturis. I'd hold up on the Theriot part, but I won't say that the talent isn't there in both, just Theriot been able to translate talent to well reality. 266/323/346 really isn't a great translation. I like Theriot...but let's not pretend he's really that good; he's not.

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season Not if Marshall does what he is capable of. If they both do what they are capable of, Zambrano will easily outperform Marshall. maybe. no, easily They're both capable of being aces. Marshall is capable of being Ted Lilly. Zambrano is capable of being one of the top five pitchers in the game. It's not even close.

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season Not if Marshall does what he is capable of. If they both do what they are capable of, Zambrano will easily outperform Marshall. maybe. There's no maybe about it. Zambrano has a season with an ERA+ of 165. This season so far he's posted his worst ERA+. He hasn't been below 130 since he was 21 back in 2002 unless he's unable to improve this year. Marshall last season had an ERA+ of 83. Even with his good start this year, he's still only 126. That would be a bad season for Zambrano.

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season Not if Marshall does what he is capable of. If they both do what they are capable of, Zambrano will easily outperform Marshall.

I wouldn't pretend that, but he's definitely got a solid chance of outperforming what the Cubs have gotten out of SS so far this year. Yeah, it's not like we're getting great production out of the SS position anyway. At this point it's worth giving Ronny another shot. I'm all for a shot for Cedeno, I just don't expect much. I expect more than we're getting out of Theriot or Izturis.

Unless it's consistently good, it doesn't mean a damn thing. Agreed. But Marshall is consistently good. You do realize that if you combine Marshall's 2006 with his 2007, he is a below average pitcher, don't you? Now, I think Marshall has the potential to be a decent pitcher, but he's nowhere near Zambrano's ability to dominate on a consistent basis.

I think the Braves would want more than Pie in a deal for Salty. Pie and a pitcher would get their attention. Honestly, I don't think Murton and Marshall would get the Braves to bite. In fact, they could probably do better from other teams.

Rockies leading the Mets 6-2 heading into the ninth.

The Cardinals have also suggested they don't plan to call him back up until September at the earliest.

And Trevor Miller gets the two outs needed and the Astros win.

Blown save alert in Houston. The Astros entered the ninth with a four run lead. The Phillies already have gotten two in, have runners on second and third with one out. Houston is now making a pitching change.

Just win, bitches.

Ya think. I do. Do you?

Astros lead Phillies 5-3 and have bases loaded in the seventh.

I agree. He's as good as both defensively and looks like he'll be better offensively. It's time to give him another shot.

About damn time!