vance_the_cubs_fan

A 315 and 319 OBP is horrible. I don't care what spot in the order that is. Unless the player is a top notch SS or a superb catcher, there's no amount of defense that makes up for that. If you look at the BA/OBP comparisons, here's how they match up over the last four seasons: 2002: Jones- 300/341 Wilkerson- 266/370 Jones out hits Wilkerson by 34 points, but gives up 29 points in OBP. 2003: Jones- 304/333 Wilkerson- 268/380 Jones outhits Wilkerson by 36 points, yet still gives up 47 points in OBP. 2004: Jones- 254/315 Wilkerson- 255/374 Wilkerson easily the better player here. 2005: Jones- 249/319 Wilkerson- 248/351 Once again the edge goes to Wilkerson. What is clear is that Jones's OBP is dependent on his BA. Wilkerson's is not. Players who can get on base via the walk tend to do so later in their careers. Players who rely on speed tend to decline more rapidly. Wilkerson tends to be a player who will age better than Jones, and he's already two years younger. Both players show about equal power when healthy. There's also no substantive proof that Jones is a better defender. He's spent a majority of his time as corner outfielder while Wilkerson has been a CF. Would Wilkerson be as good a CI as Jones? We don't know, but there's no reason to believe he wouldn't.

That's because white guys don't play as well in the sun.

There's no need for a new thread. If you have something to add, do so. The mods can split this one if they feel there is a need to. Creating a new thread just means we'll end up rehashing and restating the same stats we've already said in here.

I think maybe. Patterson is the type of player Bowden likes, but he may be getting too expensive. I think we'd have to give up a pretty good minor leaguer in the class of Pinto or such. If the price were equal, I'd easily pay the same price for Wilkerson as I would for Pierre.

Ha, are you ending the conversation by yourself? Batting eye won't help you if you can't hit the ball for power, and I don't really see Wilkerson or Jones as having high range power. Jones does have, by far, the faster bat. Plus more speed, which again, will die out long past Wilkersons. I also severely question Wilkerson's ability to play for a team like the Cubs being coached in such a horrible system, Jones comes from a team with a quality farm system and a quality head coach. I'd trust him to be more consistant and able to handle the different surroundings that Wrigley presents. Batting eye will always help you. It helps you get on base. Wilkerson has consistently gotten on base at a clip of 100 points higher than his BA. It isn't a one year fluke. Take a look at the numbers: BA/OBP 2005: 248/351 2004: 255/374 2003: 268/380 2002: 266/370 2001: 205/304 What that tells me is even if Wilkerson becomes a 220 hitter which I doubt, he'd still get on base enough to not be a complete black hole in the line-up. On the other hand, if he's a 260 hitter, then he's likely to be on base around 370-400. Your speculation about organizations and coaching is just that speculation. That and 75 cents will get you a candy bar about anywhere in town. As to Wilkerson's power, in the three of his four full seasons he has slugged over 450. He doesn't have prodigious power, but he can hit the ball for power. In fact, he probably has as much power as JJ.

Kind of looks like your avatar, heh. Why don't they just keep Sanders and sign Giles for 3-4 more? Well I don't know what those players are expect but yeah I'd rather do that. Who knows maybe this will allow us to sign Burnett - I doubt it tho. :? BTW, don't make fun of Willie - there are many women in St. Louis who find him handsome! Are these the same women who find Mick Jagger hot?

I agree with you about Walker. His attitude gets under my skin, but oh well. Why is doing anything half-injured a positive, I could easily flip that around to being injury-prone. If we have one of these players playing CF, Walker still at 2B, where is Hendry going to get speed from? Seems RF is the only open position then, and I don't know anyone with wheels to play there except Abreu. I agreed 3/20 is too much for Jones. I'd look at Jermaine Dye's deal last year and go from there. Furcal, maybe. :-k

I'd rather have Wilkerson's batting eye to Jones's quick bat. As players age, bat speed is one of the things they lose; batting eye isn't. Jones's quick bat hasn't helped him so far, I don't see why it would suddenly begin to be any more of a factor now. And it is quite likely, that his bat speed has helped him put up what is lack luster numbers. As that bat slows, those numbers will drop further. With his skill set, he's unable to put up a decent OBP inspite of a declining BA. Wilkerson has shown the ability to do just that. And even with Jones's speed, he's been unable to use it to effectively help out his game. He doesn't get enough triples or doubles with it and has been an ineffective base stealer. Wilkerson is no slouch defensively as well. So, given all the evidence, Wilkerson is by far a better acquistion.

.351? Big Deal. Walker clipped .355 and we're ready to ship him out of town. Jones has some intangibles that Wilkerson is lacking IMO, but thats besides the point - if either one ends up a Cub I'll be dissapointed. Neither one are qualified to play RF, so they're going to play CF, meaning we need a guy with speed to play RF? Not happening. Edit: Good points, plus the added realization I just had of adapting to the NL. Something also can be said for having to trade for Wilkerson and Jones being available though. What would those intangibles be? I don't see them. Secondly, I'm not ready to ship Walker out of town; unfortunately management seems to be.

According to this, it appears the Rangers are close to signing Dotel. I'd much have rather signed Dotel than the relievers we did, but I'd rather see him go to the Rangers than the Cardinals.

According to The Fort Worth Star Telegram, the Rangers have expressed interest in Juan Pierre. Even more interesting is that the Rangers are considering using Pierre in LF.

In 2005, Wilkerson had an off year and hit 248/351/405. While his BA was atrocious, he still managed to get on base at a decent clip, posting an OBP 100 points higher than his average which is quite impressive. From 2002-2004, Wilkerson hit 257/368/456. Those are also good numbers and once again, he gets on base at 100 points higher than his average. Jones in 2005 hit 249/319/438. While he did slug a bit better, the Metrodome is much more condusive to HR's than RFK. The averages are about identical, but Wilkerson manages to make much fewer outs than Jones as evidenced by the 50 point difference in OBP. From 2002-2004, Jones hit 268/322/443. Wilkerson slugged a bit better over that span. Once again the averages are similar with a slight edge to Jones, but Wilkerson's ability to draw a walk make him an immensely more valuable player. Add to the fact that Jones will turn 31 in April and Wilkerson won't be 29 until June, I think Wilkerson is the better player.

While Soriano isn't a horrible option, at the salary he'll get, there's many other options I'd like better. I really don't see Soriano appreciably better than Walker, and considering Walker is only due 2.5 million, I wouldn't move Walker if the upgrade is Sori. I'd take Castillo over Walker, and maybe Jeff Kent. Marcus Giles over Walker, I'd do in a heartbeat. I can't think of too many others I'd trade Walker for unless I'm upgrading somewhere else and using Cedeno at 2b.

That quick bat hasn't helped his numbers. I'm glad the Cards are about to sign Jones for two reasons: 1. It means the Cubs won't sign Jones. 2. It means the Cards aren't likely to sign Giles.

I hope it is Patterson and prospect, not couple of prospects. Wilkerson is good but not that good. I wouldn't mind if Wilkerson at all. Depends on who the prospects are. Nolasco and Aardsma? Count me in. Pinto and Piggy? No thanks. Considering we might give Pinto and two others for Pierre, I'd gladly give up Pinto to get Wilkerson. Wilkerson is a much better player than Pierre.

The most prudent move for the Reds would be to trade Casey and move Dunn to first keeping the OF as Kearns, Griffey, and Pena. On the other hand, Casey is very popular with the fans and in the clubhouse. He also would likely bring the smallest return. Trading Dunn or Griffey would free up the most payroll. Dunn likely brings the largest return. If I were the Reds, I'd take offers on all of them and weigh everything before making a final decision.

You're making a pretty big assumption there. I'm sure the new recruits might see some of it under the table.

Spring Training Tickets go on sale January 5.

When I went, I booked my entire hotel with games on http://www.visitmesa.com. I didn't have to worry about trying to get through when tickets went onsale, so it was nice. Spend at least one day at Fitch with the minor leaguers. It's fun to watch.

I think Bradley is likely the best option for us in CF and he's not a bad option for RF.

If the price is right, I don't mind taking a chance on Pena. I'd prefer Dunn, but I would take Pena over Kearns or Griffey when dealing for a Reds outfielder. I think it's clear the Reds need to do something to clear up that crowded outfield.

What does Brooks Robinson have to do with the Nationals?

I think it means that this trade is a figment of someone's imagination. It's not happening.

I don't think we have any worries about this one being true. I checked the Newberg report and the only thing being reported there is the ITI article. It appears that no other respectable outlet has this deal anywhere on the radar. If it is true, not only did ITI scoop it, but no one with sources in either organization has picked up on it.

Wow....I'd definitely take Ibanez :) Raul Ibanez = Jacque Jones, Jr Maybe in some bizarro world, but not in reality. Ibanez can get on base.