Rcal10

I don’t necessarily agree that Amaya has to go back in a trade for a catcher. Especially if it is to the A’s. I don’t think anyone has any idea of what the A’s value in trades. That said, I wouldn’t be opposed to a deal if Amaya had to go back. And I also agree it would take probably 2 top 100 prospects and maybe Amaya or another guy further down on the Cubs list of prospects to get Langeliers or O’Hoppe.

I am fine with Tauchman, but I am also more than happy to trade him for a pen arm. I would rather have his spot taken by a right handed hitting outfielder. They have 2 lefties and a switch hitter ahead of him in the outfield. I think a right handed bat is a better option.

It looks to me that at the very top high end they have $57M-$58M. That being the case, I would assume they would hold some back in the event of a trade deadline move. So brings us to probably $50M-$53M to add. Basically what you are saying. But, IMO, that is enough to make this a very good team. Add via trade or free agency a decent catcher, probably a decent right handed bat, a high end pitcher and a pen arm or two and maybe a lefty bat for the infield and the team should be very good. They have several prospects they can use in a trade as well as Tauchman to trade. Depending on if they want to spend money to get the players or minor league assets to get the players they should have enough money and/or young talent to do all of that.

I agree with this. Nothing wrong with having 9 starters for 8 non catcher spots. But I would rather that guy be Lowe over Rooker as well. I like the idea of a guy who can play the infield. Especially with Hoerner possibly miasing some time to start the season. And he would cost less in the way of prospects. Maybe then use more prospects to get that quality catcher. O’Hoppe or Langeliers.Then use free agency to add pitching. That would strengthen the line up, the bench, the rotation and the pen.

Honestly, if these are the options we are talking about if Bellinger it’s out, I think I would rather he not opt out and the Cubs sign Polanco or Moncada, if they really need a left handed bat. When Hoerner is out which ever one they sign plays everyday. When Nico comes back they have 9 guys for 8 non catcher positions. If they decided they would rather have a platoon bat to play 1st once in a while, instead of Polonco/Moncada maybe they go after Mountcastle.

So if the Cubs lose Bellinger you would be fine with him being the big addition to the line up? If he was the big addition he might not get 100+ games at any one position, but he would be in the line up most days. 3rd for some games, maybe 2nd when giving Nico a day or even when moving Nico to SS. The rest of the time he could he the DH. He could get 500AB easily, if he deserved them and he was the Cubs big addition. I am just not sure I like him as the big move.

With both being switch hitters and each being able to play multiple positions, maybe the Cubs could convince one of them they would get a decent amount of AB. I think the bigger issue is do the Cubs really want one of these guys and how little could they get them for? I think if the money gets into a 2 or 3 year deal over $10M a year, the Cubs shouldn’t consider either. And I think some team will give that much for either of them. If we are talking 2/$13M or even 1/8M maybe that can work. And it goes without saying this can’t be the Cubs big addition to the offense.

There is no reason the Cubs can’t have a higher payroll. There is also no reason they can’t trade for Cease and then do something crazy like sign him to a long term deal. They can’t be afraid to use prospects for proven talent. And I am using Cease as an example because he is on the last year of his deal, therefore the talent they lose to get him is less than getting a guy like him who also has years left on a deal and or years of control left. Someone like Logan Gilbert would be better, because he has more control. Or even Crochet. But both would cost a good deal more in prospects. Maybe someone like Mitch Keller works. While he isn’t the level of Cease, Gilbert or Crochet, he is signed through 28. So he will cost a little more because of additional years, but not as much as Crochet or Gilbert, because he isn’t as good. Maybe he settled into a solid MOR starter for the Cubs. So since you are so concerned about losing talent for a proven major leaguer, which makes more sense to you if the cost to acquire the pitcher is Alcantara and a 10-15 prospect in the system. Keller and have him thru 28, or Cease for a year and hope to sign him long term. Do you like 4 years of decent pitching or 1 year of TOR pitching with the possibility of signing him long term. Or would you rather lose a top 3 prospect in the system along with another guy at the back end of baseballs top 100 and probably another one or two decent prospects (maybe another top 100) and get Logan Gilbert. They would have him for at least 3 years. The thing is, what are they going to do with all these guys? They need to trade some. They can’t keep them all. There isn’t a place for them. So trade a few and bring a few along through the system and to the majors. Use them now, when they are at their highest value.

I agree they can still be good next year without Soto. Let’s face reality, that is the only way they can be good, because they are not getting him. What I don’t agree with is this idea that a prospect needs to used to fill a spot on the team. Or this fear that a prospect might be good and the Cubs traded him. The major market Cubs should use the young assets they have in the minors to get quality major league talent. This is not an argument of Soto versus Burnes and Scott. It is more a discussion of the use of minor league talent, no matter who they sign. There is a very real path to being very good without Soto. But that path would have to include trading young talent. And I am fine with that. One last point, I feel this “intelligent spending” mantra is code for a FO afraid to make a big move. I hope they come out of their comfort level this year and get aggressive.

I agree with this. Waiting around for prospects to make your team great is what small market teams have to do. Large market teams need to use “most” prospects as assets to use to acquire actual major league talent. Given the choice of Soto in the line up and Cease in the rotation versus Cassie or Alcantara in the line up and even someone like Flaherty in the rotation, I will go with Soto/Cease every time. If one of Alcantara or Cassie plus maybe another prospect in the 10-15 range of the Cubs prospect list can get Cease, I make that move. Not like the Cubs can’t sign Cease once they have him.

The last line says all that needs to be said. But I agree with everything you said as well. With Soto the line up is way different. This guy walked 129 times last year and has an OBP of 419 WITH JUDGE BATTING AFTER HIM. If he was on the Cubs he would probably be on base closer to 50% of the time than 40% of the time. He changes the entire team. Unfortunately this will not be something Jed will explore.

Well said. Basically my opinion as well. Not a fan of what he brings to the table. But prior to last year it was hard to argue against him being a part of the team, as a bench/platoon bat.

And in 23’ he had OPS at .947 with slugging at .639 against left handed pitching. There was no reason for him not being in the team in 24’. His OPS+ in 23’ was 112. Again, no reason Jed shouldn’t have been on with him as a bench bat. Easy to look back at 24’ and criticize Jed for having Wisdom. But that is hindsight and either not realizing Wisdom wasn’t bad prior to last year, or ignoring actual facts just to make an argument. Keep in mind, I am not a fan of Wisdom. I don’t like the homer or K sort of player. But he did get results. And as a bench right handed bat to fill in for Busch occasionally against a left handed pitcher was not a bad plan going into 24’.‘now if he does it again this year, that is a terrible decision. Wisdom isn’t worth a tender based on 24’.

I don’t see a chance the Cubs tender Wisdom. I also sont think there is any chance they sign Rizzo. The only person discussed here with any chance of the Cubs signing would be Goldschmidt. And for him it would have to be as a right handed bench bat at a lower salary. My guess is someone would give him more money and more playing time than the Cubs would. And if the Cubs did sign him I would think they would also acquire another, better bat than him, as well. So I wouldn’t give the Cubs more than a 10% chance of signing him. I think they will aim higher.

Maybe with some tweaking to your option they do get to an expected 90 wins. A trade for Cease gives them a better pitcher than Eovaldi. Maybe they add Tanner Scott too. Cease saves them around $8M compared to Eovaldi. So the initial moves cost them a little over $50M. Add Scott and they still have some money to fill remaining spots on the bench. A lineup with O’Neil, Lowe and possibly a platoon/starting catcher added makes for a solid line up. Add Cease to the staff and you have a very solid top 4. Add Hoffman and Scott to the pen and you have a high end pen. I think that is a team expected to win 90 games. Once Nico comes back you have one everyday bat on the bench every day. So the bench is better too.

Yep. This is just one example of many ways to make this team very good next year. I would want them to add a lefty pen arm too. High aim would be Tanner Scott. But more realistic might be Chafin. There are others as well. Also, depending on what Cease might cost via trade, I would rather him than Eovaldi. They have plenty if money to work with for fee agents or trades for bigger priced players and they have plenty of minor league talent to trade. No excuse to not be good next year, even without Soto.

Crochet scares me, though. I just have a feeling he will have arm problems. I am not sure the WS handled him properly last year. Pitched a lot of innings compared to previous years. Hate to give up what they will need to give up to make him happen and then him have problems. Maybe I am being unreasonably concerned about him, but that is my issue.

Sorry, meant Tanner Scott. Senior moment….😩

Yep, then maybe they sign someone like Mountcastle as a right handed bat off the bench. While Nico is out Mountcastle is the DH. When Nico comes back is when you sub guys in and out of the line up, depending on the pitcher that day. This would leave a good sum of money for pitching help. They can go with Rogers and Holmes in the pen and then maybe trade some young assets for a quality controlled pitcher. Sign Jansen to catch. They might even have enough money to sign Flaherty, Rogers, Holmes and Jansen. Win with pitching. And still have all your prospects. Perronally, I would trade a few to fill one of the spots I mentioned. I think the prospects are as valuable as they will ever be. Waiting may cause them to lose some value. But they don’t have to move them. There is enough money to do all of this.

My bad. I read it as AND, not “or”. Maybe Birdsell for Garcia and Gray. Maybe Cubs add a lower end prospect. Problem is, I am not really a fan of Garcia, Mahle or Gray. So it is hard for me to put together a fair deal.

You lost me. Why would he be a good fit if he “could fake it in centerfield”? How does adding Garcia and Lowe help, even with Garcia a solid defensive outfielder? And why center? Is PCA being moved? This is not a criticism. This is an actual question to what your vision would be if García was a good defender. What does the 25 roster look like with him and the prospects they have?

Lowe fits well even when Hoerner comes back. If Bellinger is gone, he is the DH. Even if they added another bat that is a “regular” everyday guy, that player and Lowe still fit with Hoerner back. They would have 9 guys for 8 non catching spots. Which is fine. If Bellinger leaves you have around $80M to spend. Plenty of money to have a solid pitcher signed along with trading for Lowe, adding a pen arm, a share time/starting catcher and another decent bat. If they are getting right to their budget, instead of signing another bat or a high end staring pitcher, they can use some of their minor league assets to trade for one of those spots to get a younger, controlled starting pitcher or bat. Money should not be an issue this off season. Not if Jed gets aggressive with some of his minor league talent. IMO now is the time to trade them before they start losing value. if Bellinger comes back, Lowe still works with the 9 guys for 8 positions idea. But then they might need to trade some prospects for one of the main things they need. Either a trade for a controlled pitcher, a high leverage pen arm, or a starting catcher. Then use the rest of the budget to fill in the other spots. By no means is Lowe someone they have to have. Just saying he does make sense and he doesn’t make that much money to mess them up. There are several ways to make this team solid next year, however. But Jed needs to be aggressive and this is the year he should be.

There isn’t a chance in hell that the Cubs trade a top minor league bat and Horton to get Garcia and either Gray or Mahle. That is just ridiculous. Texas getting rid of those guys should be closer to a salary dump, not getting top prospects.

I am pretty sure you are right about Soto. And any idea I post is based on no chance on Soto. If they are in in him, that takes center stage over any other options, without question.

Honestly I don’t even care which stats belong to which player. After a while I stop caring about EV, how often he hits a ball in the air, barrel rate, bat speed, k rate, w rate, or any other metric people love to use to make a point. After a while of year in and year out numbers, end results matter. Lowe beats Torres in both career numbers and numbers last year in OPS, and OPS+. And he beats him rather easy. Hell, Torres numbers last year were equal to Hoerner. Besides that Lowe hits from the left side and can, in limited times, play the outfield. If Bellinger does opt out he is a better fit. I don’t hate the idea of Torres if he overvalues himself and ends up costing himself a multi year deal. On a cheaper 1 or 2 year deal he would be fine. He would be a good fill in for Hoerner when he is out. But he wouldn’t be my choice between him and Lowe. And if they did get Torres, IMO, they would still need to add a better bat then his, who also hits left handed. When Hoerner comes back they mix 9 players into 8 non-catcher spots in the line up and always have a decent guy in the bench. I just wouldn’t want only Torres. With Hoerner back Torres would be the primary DH. And his bat isn’t good enough for that.