frostwyrm

My sentiments exactly. The Cubs playoff hopes have hinged on 1 or 2 games in the past, so it is not necessarily wise to just throw away games. If he gets beat out fairly by Ryu, Marshall or Guzman so be it. If Hill is a waste or they missed out on his inflated trade value then it is unfortunate, but they aren't exactly in the position right now to be giving out charity starts at the start of a new season. It sure would simplify things if the Cubs just fell out of contention quickly so all these youngsters could pitch in the big leagues.

Amazing how that Hawkins for Williams deal changed 2006. Without that trade we'd almost be talking about a rebuilding year

Hill is getting old and has nothing to prove in the minors and it would be a tragic waste of trade value to make him into a LOOGY. Hendry has already incurred an enormous opportunity cost by not trading Hill so it seems silly not to at least try him as a starter. I don't think 5 or 6 Hill starts would make or break the season.

Every discussion of pitchers' W-L records increases the sum total of stupidity in the universe.

Say we have Pierre on 2nd and a runner on 1st. Would a pitcher even consider throwing to 1st? Pierre would just trot over to 3rd. I think we'll see some games where runners on first take a hilariously huge lead.

Opting for Greg Maddux over Vlad Guerrero was a horrible idea and message board geeks everywhere knew it even at the time. A lot of things have gone wrong in the past few years but that Maddux contract is the one that sticks out in my mind.

I remember that hilarious column from spring 2004 where he called Dusty "the ultimate trump card" and said he gave the Cubs a 5 game advantage before the season even began. Funny thing, Wood's and Prior's 2003 pitch counts didn't bother Rogers back then.

... Maybe I'm crazy but I thought the ST game schedule itself was "a strict program designed to build up arm strength".

Stupid? I think so. But not that stupid. As I've already said, it was a very different situation. They believed that Kerry wasn't going to injure his shoulder any further by pitching. They also kept him in there because they believed he could help them in the wild card race. With Prior, making him pitch when they know he's injured would not help their playoff chances. Quite the opposite. And pitching while injured would most definitely risk further and more serious injury. But note the difference in the two situations: Kerry pitched live regular season games that mattered; Prior didn't even face one spring training opposing hitter. So for you to say that they both "pitched while injured" is deceiving. This spring's handling of Prior does suggest that the Cubs held him back in attempts to see if he could make progress with his injury through pitching and treatments from trainer Mark O'Neal: "We've been treating him for basically normal symptoms that everybody has when they throw." To me, this suggests that they didn't feel his discomfort was anything out of the ordinary. Again, Prior has complained of pain in the past only to have multiple tests (and doctors) unable to find a problem. I'm very curious to find out what Dr. Yocum has to say... Did you expect O'Neal to rat out his boss? If he said "no comment" suspicions would be aroused, so he made a very generic and vague statement. Perhaps he conveniently forgot to mention that Prior has the same symptoms as everybody has when they throw, only Prior has them a lot worse.

Says who? The Cubs? Anyone can say they will start a game in a week. Actually doing it is another matter. For example, I myself will make a Cactus League start in a week. I swear it's true. Do you believe me? He would have thrown enough in simulated games to make a Cactus League start if this didn't happen. He would have thrown enough off the mound. His stamina would have where he needed to be to start a Cactus League game. What else would the next step be, then? His simulated game on Sunday was only 35 pitches, down from 52 a week earlier. Why the decrease? If he was building strength shouldn't he be able to at least match what he did a week ago? Also, I'm skeptical about how rigorous these simulated games were. "Real" ST games are fake baseball too. It's normal for veteran pitchers to use ST games to build arm strength and stamina. If a pitcher is too weak to pitch in an ST game something is wrong.

Says who? The Cubs? Anyone can say they will start a game in a week. Actually doing it is another matter. For example, I myself will make a Cactus League start in a week. I swear it's true. Do you believe me?

A friend spreading false injury rumors would be pretty unnerving. Either way, your case is pretty speculative. It seems more plausible that the team was less than forthcoming, especially in light of the very slow pace the Cubs took with him. The team would have more reason to shut him down. I don't know how people can continue to blame the team when the player is echoing their sentiments (if not defending them). BTW,everyone here is speculating. It might be speculation, but it's beyond a reasonable doubt type speculation given the track record of lies. BTW, they did shut Prior down. That's why he was throwing simulated-simulated games with a towel. Sorry, I don't know what else to call a "simulated" game that takes place among other simulated spring training games. Sub-simulated games? Penultimate simu-games? :? Yeah, that's how I see it. ST is not even real baseball. If healthy the Cubs could have let Prior face a few batters with a relaxed fastball. So he gives up a few runs. Who cares? It's not a real game.

I don't think Prior hid this from the team because the team has been treating him a pitcher recovering from an injury.

I disagree with this argument 100%. What did the Cubs draw pre-98? And what was their highest selling year? '04, when playoff expectations were at a peak. The Cubs haven't gone more than 2 years since '98 without fielding a winning or playoff team (98, 01, 03, 04). A few more years like last year - maybe just one or two more - and all of a sudden it mightn't be so hard to get Wrigley tix again. There's often a few years lag between the onset of losing and an associated drop in attendance (see Chicago Blackhawks - remember the roar?). I'm not saying the Cubs must have known Prior was hurt before tix went on sale. But it's certainly not implausible. But we aren't talking about the future ticket sales, we're talking about this year. Whether Prior was hurt or not, the Cubs were going to sell tickets, lots and lots of them. Will Carroll's source on Prior's shoulder problem also tipped him off about the Achilles, so it's hard to believe this was just a lucky guess on Carroll's part. You can argue about why the Cubs lie, but it's plain that they do in fact lie.

I agree, there's no good reason for the Cubs to lie so often, but they do. Baseball Prospectus caught them red-handed.

I like Hendry's quote: It shows he's aware of just what a horrible credibility deficit the Cubs have regarding injuries.

Don't forget BABIP, especially for relievers, since their small sample sizes are susceptible to the effects of luck.

Really? I think it makes perfect sense. Perfect sense? I'd be interested in hearing your definition of the word perfect. They have 3 candidates for a job and have told all three they wish they weren't candidates for the job. They've let the guy who should be the lead candidate know they don't even want him on the team. The only candidate they have consistently supported in the past is the guy least qualified for the job. Nothing this team has done has made perfect sense. Regardless of what Hendry may have said, if I were Neifi I'd feel pretty damn good about my chances of taking Cedeno's job, and I'm sure that's why he re-signed with the Cubs. You could tell from Neifi's latest quotes that he believes there is a good chance Cedeno won't last as the starting SS, and that he actually wants Cedeno to fail. Hairston would then get 2B in a Walker-less scenario, and Hairston knows that. Walker wasn't even supposed to be here at this point, so re-signing made a lot of sense for both Neifi and Hairston. Neifi resigned because the money and security were good (especially for a guy who's been a backup more often than not). His comments are suspect; he too should keep his mouth closed because it sounded suspiciously like he was hoping for Cedeno to fail (while playing up his "veteran" status). Cedeno's starting spot should be fine as long as his defense is consistent. I think it will take an absolute collapse, defensively, by Ronny for him to lose his starting job. Baker has already said he plans to bat Cedeno 7th or 8th so he shouldn't have too much pressure to contribute offensively. I think he will be fine once he relaxes and stops pressing. I agree with Neifi, I don't think Cedeno's job is safe at all. Neifi wasn't going to be offered a starting job by any team, but backing up a right-handed-batting rookie for a Dusty Baker team is the next best thing.

Matos fits with the "catch the ball" mentality. Until Pie is ready we don't have anyone to back up Pierre other than Grissom, who is not a good defender. I guess Hairston is no longer viewed as a valid option at CF

Really? I think it makes perfect sense. Perfect sense? I'd be interested in hearing your definition of the word perfect. They have 3 candidates for a job and have told all three they wish they weren't candidates for the job. They've let the guy who should be the lead candidate know they don't even want him on the team. The only candidate they have consistently supported in the past is the guy least qualified for the job. Nothing this team has done has made perfect sense. Regardless of what Hendry may have said, if I were Neifi I'd feel pretty damn good about my chances of taking Cedeno's job, and I'm sure that's why he re-signed with the Cubs. You could tell from Neifi's latest quotes that he believes there is a good chance Cedeno won't last as the starting SS, and that he actually wants Cedeno to fail. Hairston would then get 2B in a Walker-less scenario, and Hairston knows that. Walker wasn't even supposed to be here at this point, so re-signing made a lot of sense for both Neifi and Hairston.

Howry and Eyre are shaky too. Really? Eyre's 4.0 IP, 1H, 0 ER, 6 K, 0 BB looks pretty nice. He's been pretty filthy when I've seen him pitch. Howry didn't look to good that first time out, but he has seemingly improved. Howry: 4.0 IP, 2H, 0 ER, 3 K, 0 BB is pretty solid I haven't seen howry pitch since that first outing (his control sucked), so you may be right. Eyre's been nasty though. I was looking at the bigger picture of their careers and ages. It'll take more than 4 good innings to change my opinion of those guys.

Howry and Eyre are shaky too.

Hey oldcubsfan, if you want to talk about brain-damaged talent evaluations we could talk about your buddy Dusty, the genius who actually asked Hendry to re-sign Randall Simon and Eric Karros. Those guys sure had some awesome success after leaving the Cubs. Then there was that thing about Todd Hollandsworth being a starting left fielder.

Nah, I think HR/9 is pretty important too. It's a decent indicator of a pitcher's tendency to make mistakes. Look at Maddux's HR totals. They explain a lot of his decline.

This is about as transparent an attempt to hijack a thread as I can recall seeing here. If you want to contribute something relevant to the discussion try to convince us that Neifi Perez or Jerry Hairston should start over Walker.