frostwyrm

No, those are not the complete choices I listed. You left some important stuff out. I originally wrote the following: 1) Zito, Furcal, Pie in CF, and losing several valuable minor leaguers(to get Zito). or 2) Burnett, Cedeno at SS, stopgap CF, retaining all valuable minor leaguers. Right. Like I said no mention of Giles. Why would I mention Giles in the original post? He's an RF. I was comparing Hoop's package of SP, SS, and CF to my plan for those positions. RF is a different matter. For some reason you implied I wanted Klesko in RF, so I felt compelled to mention that that was not the case. My original post didn't cover RF. We're talking in circles here. Anyway, I was just responding to your original post by saying I would rather have Zito, Furcal, and Patterson, than Burnett, Cedeno, and a stopgap CF. I think Patterson is outta here. We are less than one year away from Pie taking over in CF and the whole organization just seems disenchanted with Corey. What I hope to see is Corey do great in winter ball, which should restore some of his trade value.

No, those are not the complete choices I listed. You left some important stuff out. I originally wrote the following: 1) Zito, Furcal, Pie in CF, and losing several valuable minor leaguers(to get Zito). or 2) Burnett, Cedeno at SS, stopgap CF, retaining all valuable minor leaguers. Right. Like I said no mention of Giles. Why would I mention Giles in the original post? He's an RF. I was comparing Hoop's package of SP, SS, and CF to my plan for those positions. RF is a different matter. For some reason you implied I wanted Klesko in RF, so I felt compelled to mention that that was not the case. My original post didn't cover RF.

Another thing to consider is that if Zito has another excellent season he will be due for a big raise if we want to keep him. I'd rather just lock up Burnett right now and be done with it. Burnett won't cost any prospects either, unlike Zito.

No, those are not the complete choices I listed. You left some important stuff out. I originally wrote the following: 1) Zito, Furcal, Pie in CF, and losing several valuable minor leaguers(to get Zito). or 2) Burnett, Cedeno at SS, stopgap CF, retaining all valuable minor leaguers.

I think option 1 looks far better. Are you kidding me? Furcal is the the player I want the most this offseason. Zito would be the best 3rd starter in baseball. And who says we'd need a stopgap CF? I don't think Beane would ask for Patterson in return for Zito. In this scenario we'd have one of the best defensive shortstops in baseball and a quality leadoff hitter locked up for 4 years. If Wood comes back healthy we'd have by far the best rotation in baseball. Just resign Walker and sign or trade for a high slugging corner outfielder and your looking at a playoff team IMO. No, I'm not kidding you. Let's just say I'm not as impressed with Furcal as you are, particularly at $8M. I'll take Cedeno at $350K. Pie is the CF of the not too distant future, so I expect Patterson to be dealt, and we will need a stopgap CF until Pie is ready. Zito is fine, but I'd rather just pay Burnett his fair price and save the farm. So you pretty much just don't want to compete for a WS next year. Not if you want a stopgap CF and a Ronnie Cedeno at SS. I suppose you want Murton in left and a Klesko type player in right? There's an imposing lineup. I'm sick of having no offense. Who's going to lead off for this team, Todd Walker? I don't care about his OBP. You need some speed at the top of the order. Even if he leads off the game with a hit or walk it's going to take 3 more hits to get him home. I'm also not quite sure what doesn't impress you about Furcal. Is it the great defense? Or maybe the career .350obp. Or maybe the fact that he rarely strikes out. Or it could be the fact that at 27 he's about to hit his peak years. What is not impressive about him? I don't want a WS in 2006? I want Burnett locked up longterm and a real star like Giles in RF, and it can be done too, if we don't waste money on Furcal, and getting Burnett means we won't have to gut the farm to get Zito, who I believe will be very expensive in terms of minor league talent. We would have a real contender with Burnett and Giles on the team and plenty of young talent for trade bait. I'd also like to know who your CF is. We are close to the beginning of the Felix Pie era and Patterson is out of favor with the organization, so it makes sense to get a competent vet to bridge the gap, which will be brief if things go as planned.

I think option 1 looks far better. Are you kidding me? Furcal is the the player I want the most this offseason. Zito would be the best 3rd starter in baseball. And who says we'd need a stopgap CF? I don't think Beane would ask for Patterson in return for Zito. In this scenario we'd have one of the best defensive shortstops in baseball and a quality leadoff hitter locked up for 4 years. If Wood comes back healthy we'd have by far the best rotation in baseball. Just resign Walker and sign or trade for a high slugging corner outfielder and your looking at a playoff team IMO. No, I'm not kidding you. Let's just say I'm not as impressed with Furcal as you are, particularly at $8M. I'll take Cedeno at $350K. Pie is the CF of the not too distant future, so I expect Patterson to be dealt, and we will need a stopgap CF until Pie is ready. Zito is fine, but I'd rather just pay Burnett his fair price and save the farm.

We'd have to sell a large chunk of the farm to get Zito, and I don't see why Beane would want Patterson, who is the ultimate anti-Moneyball player. Better to keep the farm intact for late season trade flexibility, forego Furcal, and use the money that would have been spent on Zito and Furcal to get Burnett locked up to a multi-year deal. Burnett will be cheaper than Zito+Furcal, so we should have a few million left over for a stopgap CF. With a little luck Pie may be ready after the break. Boiling it down, I think the choices are 1) Zito, Furcal, Pie in CF, and losing several valuable minor leaguers(to get Zito). or 2) Burnett, Cedeno at SS, stopgap CF, retaining all valuable minor leaguers. Choice 2 looks a lot more appealing to me.

How about 8 weeks? Neifi put up a .560 OPS in June and a .570 in July. Cedeno would never see the playing field again after 2 months like that, or even 1 month.

I do actually think Dusty has gotten too much blame at times. Going into the season I thought the OF offense was lousy and not enough to compensate if any IF studs(Lee, Nomar, Ramirez) missed time, particularly because the backup IF's were lousy. Patterson was terrible and the pitching health was very shaky. Hawkins suffered a complete meltdown, Remlinger is washed up, and Jobo couldn't return to form(for us anyway). Dusty did plenty to mess things up but a lot of stuff was out of his control.

I usually agree with Stone but not this time. Cedeno and Walker are an excellent bargain at 2.85M. Furcal will comparatively be a terrible deal. Also, I don't like the idea of moving Cedeno away from the position where he is most valuable just to accommodate an overpaid Furcal.

I don't feel venomous at all when I think of this move, but I do think the guys we got aren't worth wasting bandwith to analyze their "talents". The Braves know their business, and these guys were practically given away. If they ever make it to the majors this will be a fleecing of the highest order.

Years from now I think Dusty will be remembered first and foremost for his rough use of Prior and Wood in 2003. They led the majors in pitches per start and were ridden extremely hard for the stretch run. They have not been the same since.

I hate to say it, but I thought Cedeno's words were a little presumptuous. I don't think a rookie should give any hint of demanding playing time, even if everyone knows he deserves it.

The numbers look decent, but I'm inclined to trust Braves' scouting more.

I don't know anything about them and I'm still sure they suck.

I trust the Braves' talent assessments a thousand times more the Cubs'. If the Braves let this guy go so cheaply how good could he be?

I'm cringing because Holla's stock is so low now that I know both of these guys will stink to high heaven.

I bet these prospects are some real blue chippers.

No doubt someone would take him if he could be had at a VERY low price. IMO whatever junk we could get for Holla is not worth wasting AB's on him.

Very good showcase game for Burnie. It's starting to look like we can actually get some value for him now.

If Hill and Williams are dueling each other for a rotation spot next spring I'd put my money on Hill.

I disagree, this season notwithstanding, he has some value and the Cubs should try to get something for him. Afterall, he's a decent utility player and a career .304 pinch hitter. They might as well showcase him... Holla's measly 900K salary is a decent indicator of how MLB general managers valued his talents in the offseason, and that was after he put up some excellent numbers filling in for Sosa in 2004. By now his stock must be much lower. I'd estimate he's a 500K scrub now in the eyes of MLB GM's. No one is going to get excited about him.

Nomar needs to go to an AL team in need of a 3B. In the AL he can DH part-time, and he had all his success in the AL anyway. He's had nothing but bad luck in the NL.

Ugh, just saw the lineup. I could see maybe starting some journeymen to showcase them for a trade, but they have to have some market value or it's goofy to play them at all. At this point I'm sure Holla's trade value is close to zero, and a few good games won't change that.

I'd like to go cheap with Murton and Cedeno and get in the bidding for Giles and Burnett. Starting some rookies at the league minimum is vastly preferrable to 2nd tier mediocrities like Burnitz at 5M.