chopsx9

First thing I agree with the rest of your post and maybe this is just a wording issue. All things being equal I'll take an OBP inflated by average everyday of the week and eight times on Sunday. A hit is better than a walk. This is not even debatable. Although there seem to be some on this board (not saying you are one of them) who seem to think otherwise. You can take issue with the level of his OBP, which really is not all that bad except for this year, but you are essentially saying his batting average is too high. Pierre is not nearly as bad, again this year is a different story so far, as some make him out to be on this board. That said I don't really see a reason for him to be on the Cubs in 2006 as I would like to see some other players get a shot. Which probably means he'll end up a Cub while Murton and Pie rot on the bench or in the minors.

Well just imagine if Dusty had used either of them correctly? I have seen numerous quotes in papers about Remmy's L/R splits; its not like it was secret, but Dusty knows better. Hey just imagine if Baker had used Dempster as the closer right after Borowski imploded instead of forcing Hawkins into a role he had failed at, at least twice. (Not to mention half the country was speculating about Dempster as the closer in the offseason). Hawkins carrer may well be ruined. How much difference would those have made in the season?? Maybe not enough to put the team in first but they would certainly be closer than they are now.

For what its worth I remember hearing Steve Stone and others, over the years, commenting on what a great manager Girardi would make one day. It's enough for me. Baker proves almost daily he's a moron put the San Diego Chicken in there, he can't be any worse. "Pulling a Baker" = suddenly remebering your starters need the occasional day off and then deciding it would be a good idea to rest them all on the same day; as a result fielding a lineup that a little league team from the Outer Rim of Borneo could beat.

If Nomar's health is OK there is NO way Neifi plays more than he does, zero, zilch, nada. Not even Dusty would do that.

He's not going anywhere. He's a big favourite with the suits (and rightly so). Everyone is tradable but it would take a considerable package to get him. Certainly FAARR more than the Corey Patterson straight up or CP plus a prospect that was suggested here recently.

Firmly in the "this rumour is horse pucky" corner.

That is pretty interesting. I have wondered on a couple of occasions if anyone had come up with something like this. Is there somewhere to read up on this. I can't get around some of the numbers (shouldn't GIDP be a bigger -'ve, at leat CS + out ? , and a couple of others but maybe if I read something the logic would fall into place. Poor OBP might be a little harsh he's only been under .350 once in the five preceeding years and over .370 twice - not Bonds like but I am not sure it's poor.

Wells is a bit of an upgrade from Patterson, but I think you're overstating Wells' ability. He had a great 2003, but that's been bookended by unspectacular years with a pretty low OBP and good SLG. Better than Corey? Sure. Worth giving away another player in addition to Corey to provide a marginal upgrade over Hairston in CF? Not in my opinion. I'm a big CP fan (as evidenced by the truckload of his rookie cards I will be using for kindling this winter) and hopeful he will get back on track but at this stage saying Wells is a bit of an upgrade over CP and marginaly so over JH is definite understatement. Wells isn't Abreu by a streach but he is several steps close than those two.

Wells is a decent hitter, but his OBP isn't much to brag about. Vernon Wells, as of right now, has the same patience as Corey at the plate, but only with a little bit better bat. We can do better than Vernon Wells for Corey. I think you would have to classify Vernon's bat as more than a little bit better than Corey's. I am pretty sure if this trade was suggested to the Blue Jays they would laugh pretty hard before hanging up.

Fair enough on the inclusion on SB's, but by the same token aren't taking BB's as equal to hits somewhat overvaluing them for some of the same reasons when calculating similar peripherals. Maybe less so than SB's, but SB's also are effectivley all extrabase hits which is not an insignificant value. I agree that SB's maybe shouldn't be added 1 for 1, but I would also argue that BB's should be somewhat discounted as well. (Obviously depending on what you are calculating)

If we are reducing his OBP due to his CS are we also increasing his SLG by his SB ? Don't know if that makes him more attractive or not but the logic would seem to follow.

Hopefully this does not turn him into the next Moonlight Graham.

Done. Doubtful if it would ever happen. I would HATE to lose Z, but Abreu is the player some posters seem to think Dunn is (and won't ever be). It would be a gamble but for a position player of Abreu's caliber: Done!

If you read this thread and knew nothing about the current state of baseball and it's players, you'd think Adam Dunn was horrible. Now is the time to get him. Strike while the iron's hot. I believe he's on the cusp of blowing the league away with his ability. If his average was .270 and the rest of his numbers were exactly the same (take some of his walks away and make them base hits) people would trade anything for him. It's all the same in the end. Only 6 NL players score more runs than he does. He gets on base and reaches home plate. He knocks in runs. He takes pitches and wears pitchers out. He's very, very talented. I hope this isn't supposed to be a characterization of my argument. Partially. You were one of a number of posters who made it seem if there was something wrong with his ability. For his one weakness, striking out, he has many more strengths. He combines plate discipline, speed and power. The way I see people talking about him makes him out to look like a scrub. Calling him a flawed hitter when he takes more walks than 99% of the league is inaccurate and unfair. Hitting .239 is not a flaw? I don't think you can classify it as a strength. I don't care what your OBP is, (Dunn is NOT in the top 15 in the NL), a major league player needs to be able to hit higher than that. Again he can be a very valuable player but lets not make that pedestal too high.

I am sorry, but you lost me here. Dunn is not pretty close to a perfect hitter. Pujols, Bonds,Manny Ramirez, Guerrero, Lee (THIS year) and couple of others are a lot closer than Dunn. He can be a very valuable player but close to perfect...not even. I think a lot of people are waaay over valuing Dunn here (call it irrational exuberance), again he can be a very valuable player and I'd be very happy if Cubs got him (dependent on what it took to get him), but he is not the second coming.

Maybe that's his problem - he's all tuckered out. Move Walker to leadoff Move Barret or Hollandsworth/Dubois behind Aramis. Let Corey find his stroke. Not that difficult. Corey is my CF until the end of NEXT year. Despite what some have said he has shown plenty over the last couple of years to suggest there is still reason to have some hope. Dump him now are there will be serious regrets (My opinion). He going through probably his worst streach now which will end.

INSANITY!!!!! No way. Not a chance. I like Dunn, but lets not lose our heads. If it takes Dubois, Mitre and Wellmyer - then it's a no brainer. I think the price would be a LOT steeper - this isn't a salary dump. I have to agree with an earlier poster - I like Dunn but he isn't the Messiah. He isn't a get at any cost guy in my opinion. Dusty is not going to hit him second. He won't. Yeah OBP is great but it would be a whole lot better if more of that OBP were coming from batting average. You have to be able to hit at least .250, .260 really. He strikes me as a guy that is going to flame out - Corey Snyder, Balboni, Deer, Incaviliga (??) etc, etc. Again, I am all for trading for him - but Zambrano??? Not a chance.

That's because it depends..if Dusty is in his Cubs uniform then yes it should be noted here. If he shows up in a hot dog vendors cap well.....lets just say I'll start going to church again.