17 Seconds

Nobody said they wanted to trade all those guys to get Peavy.

As much as I would love to add Peavy, we now have posters suggesting we trade Lee, DeRosa, Wuertz, and Cotts which would open at least 3 new holes on the team. . Wait, that would open up 3 holes? First of all, nobody is saying trade ALLof them for Peavy. Second, those guys aren't as crucial as you think. Wuertz and Cotts were worthless last year so I don't get what hole losing those guys would create. Trading DeRosa would be kind of a risk and would cause us to lose felixibility, but I'd be fine with sellingn high on DeRosa and giving Fontenot a full time job if it meant getting Peavy. Trading lee would open up a hole at first base, but it's not like that would have cost us last year when Lee was basically worthless at the plater after April. I'd be open to trading Lee anyways just to get out of that contract. he is clearly on the back end.

.71 WHIP 1.03 ERA

The thing about Lee's 08 is that it's even worse than it looks on paper. The only reason his numbers even look remotely decent is because he has that freakish April. I know you can take out a chunk of at-bats for most players and it would make their season look a lot worse, but when you have a .790 OPS for the last 5 months of the season that's pretty much who you were that year

By the way.. just for fun VORP for Lee 07- 30.4 08- 48.6

SLAM!

i'm actually pretty sure he's just messing with us and trying to stir things up, but still. annoying.

SLAM! when the top level is 7.8, 0.4 is a significant portion slam

SLAM! umm, actually he wasn't agreeing with you

Yup, that's exactly what I'm saying. Because 300 extra AB is the same as 56. Look it up in the brittanica, it's there somewhere it's obviously an exaggerated example but it's the same exact principle and is just as ridiculous as what you're saying. it's not lee's fault he went 0-56 in those extra at-bats, so we shouldn't fault him for that. brilliant

this is like the stuff of cubs.com message board lore

oh dear god he's serious. so why are all his rate numbers SO much better. you really shouldn't ever be allowed to post again. if those extra 56 at-bats came at the beginning of the season than he'd have had a .790 OPS. that is seriously some of the worst logic i have ever encountered in any baseball discussion. you're right, lee was exactly the same in 2007 and 2008. it's just that the offense gave him 56 at-bats, in which an 0-56 was thrust upon him by the baseball gods. how cruel of them. the fact that he has a .759 ops from may 1st on was just a another cruel joke by the gods. seriously though, do you believe what you're saying? so if a guy has 30 home runs in 300 at-bats it's the same as 30 home runs in 600 at-bats? why are you assuming as though going 0-56 in those extra at-bats was not lee's fault? why am i even bothering respond to this? the reality is that it TOOK lee and extra 56 at-bats to reach those 07 stat totals because he was significantly worse. i really don't get why you're looking at counting stats as opposed to rate stats when he had so many extra at-bats. not to mention the fact that he walked at a lesser rate. basically what you're saying is that it's not lee's fault he went like 0-56 in those extra ABs

What else could it mean? I wasn't speaking in code. No, I'm wondering why you are implying that his last 2 seasons have been similar when they aren't even remotely close. I think you thought his 2007 was bad when really it was his second best of his career. Eh, now that I look at his stat sheet, you're right. Didn't realize his 2007 was that good. Yeah, I'd be thrilled if we could get those kind of numbers. Unfortunately I think we're going to get closer to the 2008 lee You know what the difference between 2008 Lee and 2007 Lee was? 5 games. 5... games. 2007 Lee: 150G 567AB 91R 180H 43-2B 1-3B 22HR 82RBI 6SB 71BB 114SO .317/.400/.513 291TB 2008 Lee: 155G 623AB 93R 181H 41-2B 3-3B 20HR 90RBI 8SB 71BB 119SO .291/.361/.462 288TB 5 extra crappy performances in 2008 made 2007 seem light years better. He virtually put up the same numbers, stop looking at his OPS+ to determine if it was better. It was THE SAME, it only looks better because of a slightly smaller sample size EXACTLY. Somehow he must have went 0 for 56 in those 5 games though. Well, quite simple really. Assume he got at least 4 AB in those 5 games, that's 20AB right there, then assume that with the Cubs high powered and OBP crazy offense, he got 36 extra AB throughout the year via high scoring games. Fairly simple. And with Lee, it's not hard to imagine he went 0-4 over an extra 5 games in each game. you can't be serious right now

What else could it mean? I wasn't speaking in code. No, I'm wondering why you are implying that his last 2 seasons have been similar when they aren't even remotely close. I think you thought his 2007 was bad when really it was his second best of his career. Eh, now that I look at his stat sheet, you're right. Didn't realize his 2007 was that good. Yeah, I'd be thrilled if we could get those kind of numbers. Unfortunately I think we're going to get closer to the 2008 lee You know what the difference between 2008 Lee and 2007 Lee was? 5 games. 5... games. 2007 Lee: 150G 567AB 91R 180H 43-2B 1-3B 22HR 82RBI 6SB 71BB 114SO .317/.400/.513 291TB 2008 Lee: 155G 623AB 93R 181H 41-2B 3-3B 20HR 90RBI 8SB 71BB 119SO .291/.361/.462 288TB 5 extra crappy performances in 2008 made 2007 seem light years better. He virtually put up the same numbers, stop looking at his OPS+ to determine if it was better. It was THE SAME, it only looks better because of a slightly smaller sample size umm, what the hell are you talking about? you're obviously joking but i don't get it

your life is a disgrace This is such an inane insult it doesn't make sense. Thanks for your valuable input. your face is inane

Samardzija sucks worse than Gregg

Based on expected return vs. real value, I think Rich Harden would be the last player in the organization I would trade. Soto? He's saying based on the level of true value we'd get for him. He's not saying he's the last guy he'd want to trade

i don't see a single person in this thread who is surprised with how much he got

What else could it mean? I wasn't speaking in code. No, I'm wondering why you are implying that his last 2 seasons have been similar when they aren't even remotely close. I think you thought his 2007 was bad when really it was his second best of his career. Eh, now that I look at his stat sheet, you're right. Didn't realize his 2007 was that good. Yeah, I'd be thrilled if we could get those kind of numbers. Unfortunately I think we're going to get closer to the 2008 lee

Career minor league OPS doesn't always work though. Soto's is .784. Heck Derrek Lee's career minor league OPS is .844. Hoffpauir has made significant progress over the past two seasons. Derrek Lee was in the minors until age 21. Hoffpauir was until age 28. Bad comparison.

What else could it mean? I wasn't speaking in code. No, I'm wondering why you are implying that his last 2 seasons have been similar when they aren't even remotely close. I think you thought his 2007 was bad when really it was his second best of his career.

I'm confident that he would be terrible. That's about it. What about his numbers indicate to you that he would be "terrible"? I have little doubt that he could match Lee's numbers from last year over the course of a full season. look at what jason dubois did to PCL pitching Or Geovany Soto? Hoffpauir didn't exactly look overmatched in his big league AB's either. Soto is like 3 years younger and a rare breed. You can't just compare every player who comes out of nowhere to Soto. Plus matching Lee's 08 production isn't some big feat, especially when you consider his defense would be significantly worse. I'm not saying Hoffpauir would be terrible, but I'd be willing to bet good money that Lee would be significantly better than Hoffpauir in 09. 73 at-bats doesn't tell you much. I' put more stock into the fact that he had 24 K's in 73 at-bats to only 6 walks, and almost all of the AB's came against RHP.

I'm confident that he would be terrible. That's about it. What about his numbers indicate to you that he would be "terrible"? I have little doubt that he could match Lee's numbers from last year over the course of a full season. look at what jason dubois did to PCL pitching last season

http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081119&content_id=3685486&vkey=news_sd&fext=.jsp&c_id=sd ay dios mio. just trade him to the braves already and oh, once again, lol at carrie muskat

I'm not confident he'd be next year's Soto, but I'd imagine he could put up somewhat similar numbers to what Lee has put up the last two seasons, and as you say, be much cheaper and be a lefty bat. What do you mean "the last 2 seasons"? Lee's 08 was nothing like his 07. His 2007 season was like the second best of his career.