WrigleyField 22

Oh I guess that would be alright, too. Is it wrong for me to rather see Hill or Guzman instead of Prior? I really just want the Cubs to stop relying on him and Wood. I'd rather see one of our promising minor league guys over a guy who's been on the DL more and more as the last couple years have gone on. With the way the season is its understandable, but you can't just toss him under the table. If he can ever stay healthy I think he could be a better pitcher than Zambrano. At this point I would almost like to see a 6 man rotation where Z goes on normal rest and the other 5 rotate through the other days with extra rest. It saves a guy like Marshall from getting too tired being that he's never pitched this much and saves Prior from further possible injury, and allows us to see everyone. I'm sure that it is unlikely, but it would be interesting. Just for kicks it would work out like Zambrano Marshall Marmol Prior Hill Zambrano Guzman .... Then it gets tricky where you could just push everyone back a day or put most guys on normal rest but give Marshall an extended rest where he is the 12th man in an emergency. You would need 12 pitchers but we tend to do that anyway.

Either that or Guzman

This thread should have read: 1-Fire Dusty 2-Fire Hendry 3-Firesale of any player not of value past this year But I suppose that would have been beating a dead horse.

Side Note- If there was a pitcher on this team who I thought could become a useful position player, any position, even as a starter, it would be Zambrano. He had a .763 OPS last year. Better than Walker, Pierre, Murton, and Cedeno this year. He didn't take a walk, but work on that patience a little and give him full time BP he could become a force! Whos else is on the "Play Zambrano at 1B, After We showcase Nevin and Walker for the Trade Deadline, to give Lee days off, except the days before and following his starts" BANDWGN. :D :lol: His schedule would be: Pitch-Rest-1B-1B-Rest. Pitch hitting available on days when he has extra rest because of off days. Too bad he actually, you know stays healthy and does his job.

He has a career .197 OBP. If that still becomes .260 to .300 (A big if anways) thats no good, at all. Even if his AVG could get up to .260 I wouldn't expect more than .300 OBP. That doesnt convert to starter numbers and he would need .450+ SLG to be a semi-useful bench player. And we don't know if he can even reach those numbers. He may still become a decent starter. If anything a reliever, but no way he becomes a position player.

I would do that if I didn't think I could get a better deal just because I would like something for Maddux since he's gone anyway. In another thread there was a rumor mentioned about getting a top pitching and postion player prospect from LA which would be much better. Even one top prospect would be nice. Jorge Sosa isn't anything special and is nearing 30. Langerhans looks like a 4th outfielder with his SLG%, despite the nice OBP.

Also, no point in trying to make Wood a position player, especially OF or 3B where offense is typically needed. His most value is at pitcher if he can stay healthy, whether he be a reliever or starter. I am not convinced that it will ever happen but I don't see the point in trying to convert a 29 year old pitcher into a position player. What could his ceiling possibly be as a postion player? Bench player? A player who next season (after June) will be entering the wrong side of 30, just to be a bench player? I'd rather take my chances he can become a solid reliever.

The biggest thing with Prior right now is his control. I cant seehow not allowing him to pitch is going to fix that. Might as well let him work thru it. Its not like hes in pain right?

I disagree that the lineup order would improve this team much. Well I would say that with those players I would under normal circumstances I would place Walker 1 or 2, but he has tailed off a ton since the beginning of the season. I'd also usually take a guy with the OBP of Pierre to lower in the order, but he has been heating up. Murton would look good in the two spot against lefties, but Jones wouldn't be best used there against righties so it can't be an exact swap, but Barrett would work well there as his OBP doesn't drop off from righties much, just his SLG. So: LEFTIES Pierre Murton Lee Barrett Aramis Jones Walker Cedeno RIGHTIES Pierre Barrett Lee Aramis Jones Walker Murton Cedeno Ultimately, many would agrue that the order won't make much of an effect anyway, and those small changes aren't enough to change this ballclub into a successful one. But it would help. In an effort to help the youth, Theriot could see time at 2B or even SS too and fill in at the bottom of the order.

To be fair, we have no idea how good Wood and Prior might have been if Dusty hadn't destroyed them in 2003 :x Hmmm... I'm thinking Dusty purposely screwed up Prior and Wood, thus improving his cred because he can evaluate talent.

Finished behind Yadier Molina in the voting. Yadier is at .244/.292/.343/.635 What's funny about that is I had an argument with a Cards fan before the season began. I said Molina would bat near 250; he all but called me stupid and said it would be close to 300 if not better and there was no way it would be lower than 275. I'm feeling confident that my prediction will be closer to the truth. Your friend was clearly talking about OBP!

I don't agree with AJ being in the all star game, but I can't blame the fans for making a push for it. Didn't we have a thread asking people to pledge their votes as soon as all star voting began. So many people were throwing 25 votes or more a day at players who they hadn't had time to evaluate whether or not their season was all star worthy.

You left out the fourth, and most important group, and that's the team. They have to accept responsibility for their own performance and demand effort from their teammates. This isn't meant to defend Dusty, but a new manager won't have success if the team doesn't change. I personally think every individual teammate needs to take responsibility for their own actions. Once players point fingers it all goes to hell. Now the occassional figurative smack in the face(or sometimes literal) to get the message across is okay from a teammate whos an established leader. But theres a way to go about it and blaming one whole group of players and just saying they suck isn't it. I can't exactly how to explain how thats done but there should be some more motivation and support there. Players play, coaches get on players cases.

Well with all that i certainly doesn't look quite so bad, but I would much rather have the Lee approach. There are 3 people who, IMO, can place resonsibility on someone: The fans, the media, and the coaches. The fans and media opinion mean little. The coach needs to let which players know who aren't doing their job and at the same time take some responsibility for it. Dusty doesn't do this, obviously.

Dude can't be fast, he's white. (Really I could imagine Baker/Hendry using this philosophy)

If he did it to push blame off himself and onto the pitchers it is certainly not okay. It is very possible he was led into that question or he meant it in a we all stink type of way. He can say whatever he wants. If he wants to say that I don't want him on my team.

I thought the play on the field was a good enough message?

We know where all our 2nd 3rd and 4th round money went.

I guess I just don't trust the guy spending the money. With his extension our first offseason without Hendry would be before 2009... If we suck a little less next year, are wild-card contendors in 2008 then we can get a GM who knows what hes doing before 2009 to spend some money on the right kind of players that can put us over the top. Ideally I would just want Hendry gone this offseason, but I don't see that happening. Briefy looking at next year (with a whole new coaching staff) Zambrano Marshall Marmol Guzman Hill (Prior) Dempster Howry Eyre Wuertz/Aardsma/etc Barrett Lee Walker Cedeno Aramis Murton/Jones platoon? stopgap CF-till Pie is ready stopgap RF Bench(no Niefi,Bynum etc) young prospects=good Soto/Theriot/etc That would be a pretty cheap team, but still with enough big names to keep the casual fans happy so the Trib would go for it. In 2008 you could start to look for a FA RF or maybe you will have traded for one by then, also Pie should be ready to step in at CF and Patterson at 2B. By that time Cedeno/Murt/Bench guys have exp so you are breaking in only 2 rooks. You have an idea of who will stick in the rotation so you can start to look for FA pitchers long term. Then 2009 is just a matter of putting the final pieces in. Hendry would be gone so there would be hope that a GM who values OBP and other stats can put the final pieces in, such as the rotation, bullpen, LF? I just don't want to see Hendry compromising our future with huge FA spending on the wrong players. I just am hopng we can sit tight and find out who will be a piece to the puzzle when we win.

This kinda deals with transactions, but could go in baseball dicussions too I guess. Feel free to move. After the game there was a poll on the postgame show on which young starter would be in the rotation next year- Marshall, Marmol, Guzman, Hill, or the final answer all of them! The way I see it next year Zambrano is the only lock. Maddux likely goes, Priors health is questionable, and if Wood isn't let go his health too is questionable. So there are 4 spots to fill and what do you know we have 4 "ready" arms. We won't be in a position to win next year. The best we could hope for is to be bad to maybe below average but know we are setting ourelves up for the future. Some people might want a high priced FA like Zito, but he wouldn't push us over the edge to win. Lets see who out of the 4 we can count on to be a mainstay in our rotation when we are in a positon to win('09?'10?). If we can find two starters from the group then we would only have two other starting spots which could be filled from the next group of young pitchers- Gallagher,Pawalek, Veal, etc, a FA, and/or ideally a healthy Prior. Next years rotation Zambrano Marshall Marmol Guzman Hill -If Prior is healthy you can rotate the last 3 guys Marmol,Guzman,Hill from the two starter spots and long relief. That is just one small part of the whole plan I would like to see going into next year, the rest of which I will do sometime closer to the offseason. I can deal with sucking next year, but I dont wanna suck with expensive old guys. Anyone else in favor of the all-young rotation next year?

Cincinnati Dunns?

Fixed^2

Derrek really said that? I love you Derrek.

Whosever playing the Cardinals. Usually my other favorite team would be whosever the worst cuz I like underdogs. The Cubs have basically secured that spot though. Go Royals?

I have all of those as well as tons of newspaper clippings from that postseason run. After they lost I decided I'd hang on to them until they did win a WS and then burn them. At this point they might deteriorate first.