WrigleyField 22
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Everything posted by WrigleyField 22
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If hes that important make him an offer as pitching coach that he can't refuse. Hell he doesn't even have to be pitching coach. You could make a whole new position for him. -
They are just as ready as the pitchers that you are so concerned about that we gave up for Pierre. The ones who aren't RIGHT now like Gallagher, Ryu, Wells, maybe Guzman could be ready sometime next year. If we sign a FA pitcher your rotation is Zambrano Zito/Schmit/etc Marshall(ready) Hill(ready) Marmol(ready) Sixth Man/Bonus- Prior(could still be All Star Caliber) On the Cusp- Guzman, Gallagher, Ryu, Wells. A strong spring training like Marshall any of these guys could make a run at the last 3 rotation spots. The popular view seems to be to go for it all in 2007. I think while possible it makes more sense to aim for 2008. You can still be active this offseason and aquire guys who will help in 2007, but also make sure that they'll be aoround for the long haul. Any extra spots should be used on young players, trying to find out who may a piece for a real run in 2008. Any spot where a young guy doesnt emerge, you can fill via FA the next offseason. Right now we have enough pitchers to work with and try to find a couple keepers. You can't say the same about position players so theres no reason to shy away from aquiring some top position players this trade deadline.
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Also regarding Blanco, if you do decide to keep him then you gotta do something with Soto and Reyes. Soto has spent two years at AAA and proven to be a strong defensive good OBP catcher. And in either 2007 or 2008, I forget which, he will either have to make the big league club be exposed to waivers. Then theres Reyes who is great defensively, but still can't hit. You could take him off the 40man without too much concern, but then theres Fox. We were able to keep him off the 40man last year, but might not be able to this year. SOMETHING needs to be done with catchers on the 40man. My preference is to trade Blanco and groom Soto into the good backup he looks like he could become.
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What difference does it make whether or not we get pitching back? Yea it hurt to lose Nolaso and Pinto, but Marshall, Marmol, Hill, Guzman, Gallagher, Ryu, Wells, are more than enough to fill the void. If you can get a good position prospect for Pierre it would essentially be like you traded a strength (pitching) for a weakness (position players). I'm in favor of trading him. While he could be a decent stop gap for Pie next year, there are likely to be some other decent CF you could pick up in FA over the offseason. With the way Pierre has played of late, he may have risen his value enough to get a decent return back. It wont make up for what we gave up, but a good GM will admit a mistake and cut his losses. I agree we would need to be blown away with an offer for Dempster, Howry, and Eyre, but you never know, a team looking for a closer might do just that. And I would go back to the same thing with Pierre, who cares if its pitching or not? Just aquire assets. As an example you could look at John Paxson for the Bulls who picked up a strong SF in a draft day trade even though its the strongest position, but its a strong asset that he can use to consolidate when one specific need comes up. Right now the Cubs have more than one need so theres no sense in trying to only accept help a one area.
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Anyone else glad to see him finally healthy and putting up decent numbers at AA? At this point it doesn't matter as he is 26, almost 27 so he doesn't figure to ever amount to anything more than a minor league roster filler, but its kinda nice to see a once top prospect at least get healthy. .297 .368 .442 .810 His line at WestTenn
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I would trade Blanco because he is entering the last year of is deal and we have two young defensive capable catchers on the 40man. While neither have the power Blanco has shown capable of, Soto has good discipline and has been at AAA for 2 years. After those two Fox will likely need to be added and theres still Reed who could become pretty good and will need to be protected within a few years. Pierre is getting hot now so we might be able to net something good. Not as good as we gave up maybe, but sometimes you have to admit a mistake and cut your losses. That being said I wouldn't mind him as a stop gap for Pie next year, but he cant go in as a leadoff hitter next year. I like Howry, Eyre, and Dempster too, but in this market if someone is willing to overpay, these guys may very well not be in our plans past 2007. They are keepers but not on the level of Lee, Aramis, Barrett, and Z IMO.
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Definite: Nevin Williamson Maddux Jones Probable: Walker Pierre Possible: Dempster Eyre/Howry (wouldn't do both) Dump as part of bigger deals if you can: Niefi Mabry Blanco Novoa Rusch Then you could use Murton or Cedeno if it is neccessary to net a top notch prospect. Theres also Wood whos kind of tricky because his value is at an all time low, but if we think there is no chance at him coming back then you might as well trade him for whatever low-level prospect you can and hope you find a diamond in the rough. I'd lean towards keeping him around at a very reduced salary. Those aren't firesale type names, but I think of it as a firesale in the sense that you would be seeing a big turnover in roster. Basically the only players not up for grabs are Z, Lee, Aramis, the young SP(unless blown away of course), Barrett. Guys kept unless needed to complete a bigger deal Eyre, Howry, Dempster, Cedeno, Murton, Ohman.
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This post is kind of contradictary. First the whole thread is based on the basis that Maddux is traded so he shouldn't be included. Secondly, you say shut down Prior, but then include him in one of the scenarios.
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I don't think a full firesale is a good idea, but just those guys who aren't in our plans past this year and maybe even next. So I'm not advocating trading Lee and Zambrano. But I say trade away guys rather than letting them just walk and hoping maybe for some draft compensation. As far as firing Hendry, I don't recall him specifically taking blame. Not saying he didn't, but I don't remember it. If he did, I'm glad, but it may be too little too late.
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no need to dwell on the past..and personally I think Wood was ruined before he got to the majors because of his back issues he had as a kid.. as for Prior.. as I said in the other thread... I think he will return to form next year.That is just irresponsible. Wood wasn't ruined in 98 or 01,02,03. He was ruined by Johnnie B Baker. Plain and simple. It would be classic Dusty to push the blame off on anyone else besides himself.
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Why do some people assume Prior is just a big wuss and cant take pain? Did I miss the quote from any reliable source that said his injuries were overblown by him? Also sometimes a coach forces the issues and takes caution with a players pain.
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Inadvertantly left him there. I only skimmed the list to see if it looked accurate. Like I said it was very rough and done quickly. Fixed it.
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Let me first say I completely don't expect management to take advantage of the Jones situation and sell high. But theoretically, how much could we get for Jones? From the right team could we net ourselves a top prospect? I don't know other teams minor leagues as well so I'll just compare to ours: Could he net us a: (Roughly tried to rank these players in order of value) Pie Gallagher Marshall Marmol Pawalek Hill Guzman Patterson Fox Veal Reed Dopriak Ryu Moore Hoffpauir Soto Theriot Harvey Sing
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Rolleyes have their time and place. Rarely do I see them used correctly. And more than one rolleye is never neccessary, under any circumstance. (waiting to get a multiple eyeroll response from gilesbro on this one)
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Oh I guess that would be alright, too. Is it wrong for me to rather see Hill or Guzman instead of Prior? I really just want the Cubs to stop relying on him and Wood. I'd rather see one of our promising minor league guys over a guy who's been on the DL more and more as the last couple years have gone on. With the way the season is its understandable, but you can't just toss him under the table. If he can ever stay healthy I think he could be a better pitcher than Zambrano. At this point I would almost like to see a 6 man rotation where Z goes on normal rest and the other 5 rotate through the other days with extra rest. It saves a guy like Marshall from getting too tired being that he's never pitched this much and saves Prior from further possible injury, and allows us to see everyone. I'm sure that it is unlikely, but it would be interesting. Just for kicks it would work out like Zambrano Marshall Marmol Prior Hill Zambrano Guzman .... Then it gets tricky where you could just push everyone back a day or put most guys on normal rest but give Marshall an extended rest where he is the 12th man in an emergency. You would need 12 pitchers but we tend to do that anyway.
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Either that or Guzman
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This thread should have read: 1-Fire Dusty 2-Fire Hendry 3-Firesale of any player not of value past this year But I suppose that would have been beating a dead horse.
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Side Note- If there was a pitcher on this team who I thought could become a useful position player, any position, even as a starter, it would be Zambrano. He had a .763 OPS last year. Better than Walker, Pierre, Murton, and Cedeno this year. He didn't take a walk, but work on that patience a little and give him full time BP he could become a force! Whos else is on the "Play Zambrano at 1B, After We showcase Nevin and Walker for the Trade Deadline, to give Lee days off, except the days before and following his starts" BANDWGN. :D :lol: His schedule would be: Pitch-Rest-1B-1B-Rest. Pitch hitting available on days when he has extra rest because of off days. Too bad he actually, you know stays healthy and does his job.
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He has a career .197 OBP. If that still becomes .260 to .300 (A big if anways) thats no good, at all. Even if his AVG could get up to .260 I wouldn't expect more than .300 OBP. That doesnt convert to starter numbers and he would need .450+ SLG to be a semi-useful bench player. And we don't know if he can even reach those numbers. He may still become a decent starter. If anything a reliever, but no way he becomes a position player.
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I would do that if I didn't think I could get a better deal just because I would like something for Maddux since he's gone anyway. In another thread there was a rumor mentioned about getting a top pitching and postion player prospect from LA which would be much better. Even one top prospect would be nice. Jorge Sosa isn't anything special and is nearing 30. Langerhans looks like a 4th outfielder with his SLG%, despite the nice OBP.
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Also, no point in trying to make Wood a position player, especially OF or 3B where offense is typically needed. His most value is at pitcher if he can stay healthy, whether he be a reliever or starter. I am not convinced that it will ever happen but I don't see the point in trying to convert a 29 year old pitcher into a position player. What could his ceiling possibly be as a postion player? Bench player? A player who next season (after June) will be entering the wrong side of 30, just to be a bench player? I'd rather take my chances he can become a solid reliever.
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The biggest thing with Prior right now is his control. I cant seehow not allowing him to pitch is going to fix that. Might as well let him work thru it. Its not like hes in pain right?
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I disagree that the lineup order would improve this team much. Well I would say that with those players I would under normal circumstances I would place Walker 1 or 2, but he has tailed off a ton since the beginning of the season. I'd also usually take a guy with the OBP of Pierre to lower in the order, but he has been heating up. Murton would look good in the two spot against lefties, but Jones wouldn't be best used there against righties so it can't be an exact swap, but Barrett would work well there as his OBP doesn't drop off from righties much, just his SLG. So: LEFTIES Pierre Murton Lee Barrett Aramis Jones Walker Cedeno RIGHTIES Pierre Barrett Lee Aramis Jones Walker Murton Cedeno Ultimately, many would agrue that the order won't make much of an effect anyway, and those small changes aren't enough to change this ballclub into a successful one. But it would help. In an effort to help the youth, Theriot could see time at 2B or even SS too and fill in at the bottom of the order.
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To be fair, we have no idea how good Wood and Prior might have been if Dusty hadn't destroyed them in 2003 :x Hmmm... I'm thinking Dusty purposely screwed up Prior and Wood, thus improving his cred because he can evaluate talent.
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Finished behind Yadier Molina in the voting. Yadier is at .244/.292/.343/.635 What's funny about that is I had an argument with a Cards fan before the season began. I said Molina would bat near 250; he all but called me stupid and said it would be close to 300 if not better and there was no way it would be lower than 275. I'm feeling confident that my prediction will be closer to the truth. Your friend was clearly talking about OBP!
