WrigleyField 22

If we let him play up his value more thats fine because than it becomes more likely another team will offer a multi-year deal and we can more safely offer arbitration. Heck, maybe Pierre agreed to not agree to arbitration assuming we let him play so as to help his value in the FA market.

I don't neccessarily think Pie needs to be called up, so I'm fine with this. He also tells us Murt needs to play a lot, which is good. I don't see much wrong with this.

Well it depends on what our strategy is for next year. Are we making some big FA splashes to try and buy a winner? Or are we going to take this a little more slowly and try out some younger players? If we decide to go with youth he would be an upgrade to Cedeno. Based on his minor league career you could probably expect a .350 OBP out of him. The big thing is slugging. Except for his hot streak he's had right now he has never shown power. I don't expect that to change long term so the only way he is more than a utility guy for his career is if he could sustain a .370-.380 OBP. Not impossible, but not terribly likely.

Murton can give us similar production to Catalanotto minus some slugging, but with the potential to still add more. If we get Catalanotto we should just put him in RF to replace Jones or try Jones in CF and get rid of Pierre.

Is there a time table on when the PTBN has to be named? Maybe theres a guy that interests the Cubs, but is up for the rule 5 draft this offseason, and they want to see him pass through.

Time to get her knocked up again. then he'd suck twice as bad. Time to sacrifice the kid.

Cubs have no need for Howard (and Ryan can't play anywhere else but 1st) with Lee on the team, so I would say CHASE UTLEY or bust.... With that said... People automatically assumes that Pierre who could be classed as a Type A Free Agent, would be offered arb. But what happens if Hendry doesn't offer arb to Pierre, ie like Nomar, and he leaves without getting any draft picks in return? Or better yet, what happens if Hendry does offer ARB, and so a team goes Boston/Clement on us? Meaning the Cubs would have to settle for a 2nd/3rd/4th rd pick at best for Pierre? The reason that happened with Clement is because he was a type B. Assuming Pierre is a type A, at the very least we would get a supplemental pick plus whatever lower round pick.

I think the bottom line is not how fast a guy is, but how wel he uses the speed he has. This applies on the basepaths, but also other areas such as defense. For instance I was watching the Cubs game last night and I think it was the first hit of the game, a line drive up the middle that Bynum didnt reach. Hes a fast guy but as you saw the replay he had to first plant with the away foot so he was behind a step and missed the ball by a little less than a step. This is just an isolated incident and I haven't seen enough of Bynum t 2B to know if he does it a lot, but the point is a small change in step can give the guy the slight advantage needed. Its how Singletary compensated for his lack of speed on the football field. Theres a lot of speed/quickness knowledge and training out there these days and while I think it has less value in baseball than other sports, little things in footwork can make a big difference in a guys defensive or baserunning capabilities. If you use this type of knowledge to your advantage you wont get caught up in just pure speed. Guys take a lo of wasted steps and general body movements contradict what guys are trying to do.

If he is type A I believe they will recieve a first rounder (2nd rounder if its tp 15) and a supplemental. This could change if the signing team signs other type A FAs. I think this happen with Clement where we should have recieved 2nd(he was typeB) but the BoSox also signed a couple type A guys so thdraft compensation was pushed down and we got a 4th or 5th I believe.

Why down on Montanaz? He's crushing the ball in AAA this year! .288 .346 .634 (obp - slg - ops)

I think this is an excellent point. I think a lot of low-walk guys don't walk because they are afraid of 2-strike counts. They know they stink with 2-strike counts, and K a lot. Solution? Don't let the count get to 2 strikes, and expand your strikezone already on 1- and 0-strike counts. But sometimes, if something happens so that a dude's contact ability does increase, his confidence that he can live with some 2-strike counts increases. And when that happens, he may be more patient and disciplined earlier in the count. One side of the coin is the view that from good patience, you swing at good pitches and hit them better. Plate discipline is the chicken, better hitting is the egg. I'm suggesting that the reverse can also apply; when you're hitting better, you may be more willing to be more patient. Another way to look at it is that in some instances, if a player is hot enough pitchers are really gonna start laying off and not putting anything near the strike zone. Its possible pitchers are throwing such bad balls not even Harvey would swing at. I think all of those things go into the equation of plate discipline, but the biggest thing is that you have to first have good plate discipline.

My middle school gym teacher used to do some some regional recruiting for a college and he said that if the pitcher was throwing a curveball before 16 he wouldn't even look at him.

I hate the comments like that which try to make the management look even worse. (I'm not trying to attack you personally because it happens a lot). This organization is terrible for its decisions regarding player signings, hitting philosophy, player development, coach, GM, etc etc. The decisions regarding names on the jerseys are not stopping this team from getting better. Its the boneheads running everything. I would bet Hendry doesn't even have say in this. Theres probably a special department with people who don't have any part of the baseball side of things that make these decisions. Plenty of teams can put together a good team and worry about stuff like this. I geuess I'm analyzing it too deeply and its just meant to be funny, but I don't get such comments.

You can't really judge them on their limited major league totals. However, you can look at minor leaue totals. Theriot, while always being old for his league has career numbers of .265 .355 .331 While the OBP is solid, the slugging leaves much to be desired. Those are his 5 previous seasons, not including this year. Cedeno, while being young for his leagues has career numbersof .265 319 .376 Obviously the OBP leaves MUCH to be desired. With his slightly higher SLG, his OPS edges Theriot .692 to .686. As 2B I don't see either of these guys being anything other than career backups. Cedeno has had one great season(between AAA and MLB) one decent season (AA) and everything else has been bad. Theriot, while showing great plate discipline for the past 4 years has never really had acceptable SLG numbers other than last year at AA. With the right coach and a switch back to SS, Cedeno could become a starter. Unless Theriot develops power next year at the age of 27, hes just a backup. Fotenot's minor league numbers make him look capable of being a .800 OPS player. He has been a AAA player for three years now and will like Theriot be 27 next season. Maybe he's the best 2B prospect of the three, but he needs to be given a chance soon. Maybe they will all just brige the gap for Patterson, but he has not lived up to the hype of last year. Theriot only a few years (2-3?) started hitting right handed full-time...I believe he was an experimental switch hitter before that...you can basically throw those stats out. Well his past 2-3 years do reflect that as he has had a consistently higher AVG and in turn OBP, but his SLG has yet to catch up. I don't think that his OBP is good enough to ignore his lack of power.

Just looking at stats his OBP is too tied to his AVG to really be a top of the order guy, though its likely his speed will get him placed there because of the speedy leadoff guy mold. Power wise he hasnt ever shown the SLG neccessary to hit in the middle of the order(other than a half season .554 last year), but he could add muscle to his frame and gain more power as he matures. Either he needs to learn more plate discipline and become a top of the order guy or add some muscle and hit somewhere 4-6. If he can manage to do both he could become a deadly 3 or 4 hitter.

You can't really judge them on their limited major league totals. However, you can look at minor leaue totals. Theriot, while always being old for his league has career numbers of .265 .355 .331 While the OBP is solid, the slugging leaves much to be desired. Those are his 5 previous seasons, not including this year. Cedeno, while being young for his leagues has career numbersof .265 319 .376 Obviously the OBP leaves MUCH to be desired. With his slightly higher SLG, his OPS edges Theriot .692 to .686. As 2B I don't see either of these guys being anything other than career backups. Cedeno has had one great season(between AAA and MLB) one decent season (AA) and everything else has been bad. Theriot, while showing great plate discipline for the past 4 years has never really had acceptable SLG numbers other than last year at AA. With the right coach and a switch back to SS, Cedeno could become a starter. Unless Theriot develops power next year at the age of 27, hes just a backup. Fotenot's minor league numbers make him look capable of being a .800 OPS player. He has been a AAA player for three years now and will like Theriot be 27 next season. Maybe he's the best 2B prospect of the three, but he needs to be given a chance soon. Maybe they will all just brige the gap for Patterson, but he has not lived up to the hype of last year.

I'm a little stupider for reading that quote.

Aramis does hustle!!!!! Bynum does suck!!!!!

You could probably argue if everyone ranked their favorite rock bands of all time, that these two would be 1-2... but its possible that with some pissed off Zep fans and a strong Who contingency that neither of these bands actually win. Now the Beatles still may pull out the win, but the Who have a chance. Seeding declaring the winner?

Yet they aren't. 44-32. For the record I like both bands, but my love for the underdog took over and I voted for the one I thought would have less votes- Queen.

Cruz would be a great 4th OF for next year. Also referenced in the thread was Pagan who could be a decnt 5th OF.

I don't care enough about the outcome that much, so don't think I'm trying to create some conspiracy or force an issue, but... Is there anyway the Mods could see who voted in the polls. Looking at that and seeing how many of each were from "new members" (if thats been tried at all) could clear up the true winner. I just say that because you figure someone on either side might complain that such votes made it unfair. Moot point IMO, neither of these bands win.

You might as well blow the team up if you're going to say that. This team has TWO years to win, then we'll have to rebuild somewhat around a new core of players besides Lee/Z/Prior/Aram/Barrett. I think two years is the perfect time to aim to win it all in. Regarding this offseason we can make moves that improve us for next season, but are shortsighted or make moves that make us better and are not shortsighted. I think a lot of the big FA names thrown around are shortsighted. After that two year mark you wont NEED to find a new core. Ages of these players in the 2009 season. Lee-33 Past his prime but likely still productive Zambrano- 27 going on 28 Prior- 28 Aramis- 30 going on 31 tail end of prime Barrett- 32 being a catcher, likey past his prime Thats a solid veteran core to play with. Hopefully within those three offseasons we can aquire some younger players that will take the reigns. There aren't too many promising players in our farm system, but a lot can change in a few years. Just expanding on what I just wrote: Looking at who might form that "core" Hopefully we can find a way to let Murton play next year he solidifies himself as the number 2 hitter for this team for years to come. EPatt looks ready to contribute by 2009 as a full time. That two year gap would be bridged beautifully by Loretta (2 yrs 6mil?). Hopefully those guys would be our 1-2 hitters to build around. Pie would be ready for a 2008 bottom of the order guy. I'll be consevative and say hes still bottom of the order in 2009, with the chance to become a middle of the order guy(if he can develop that power) by 2010. After 2009/2010, You would figure is when some of our current core starts to go.. Lee is signed through 2010 Barrett could sign a nice 3 year deal after 2007.. Ramirez if he opts out and renogotiates would probably get a new deal bringing him to 2010/2011. Prior and Z will still be relatively young and hopefully anchoring our rotation along with some of the nice young guys we have now. (Side note, with the way we have developed arms, I'm not too concerned. Yea we may need a FA signing here and there to bridge the gap, but cost in the rotation hopefully wont be an issue. Things could change drastically, but we are covered with cheap talent for a least a while longer likely). Some other guys who we could see start to break in around 2009(bench roles) are Dopriak and Fox (Lee and Barretts replacements?) The next year Colvin might be ready to come and fill the bottom of the order. This requires him to skip a level, but hopefully being a college guy he makes an easier tranistion. This group of position players leaves little room for error, but there are some notable free agents along the way if you can't find a young guy to fill a hole. Some of these are: 2008-Michael Young, Brad Wilkerson,Milton Bradley,Abreu,Suzuki 2009-Baldelli, Mo Pena, Hank Blalock, Kearns and then the "big two" in 2010 if you are struggling to replace the core (yes I'm getting ahead of myself, but humor me) Cabrera and Mauer. Two positions 3B and C that could need replacing. Yea you'd expect whatever two teams that have them to lock them up. Besides prospects and FA, you may also find we can aquire core position players by trading pitchers whom you don't want to pay big bucks for if we can continue to develop replaceable young pitching talent like we have. The options are there. So you let 2007 be a developmental year 2008/2009 core Lee Barrett Ramirez Zambrano Prior FA signings (Loretta07? Young 08? Wilkerson 08?) -------- Future "core guys" EPatt Pie Murton Zambrano Prior Any of our current young pitchers FA money we have cuz we arent still paying Carlos Lee from that 5 yr deal in 2007 Lesser "core future": Fox Dopriak Colvin -lesser as they are farther away and have more legitamite concerns about ability to reach ceilings This post might seem all over the place and gets ahead of things way to much, but I typed it all to maybe help prove we dont NEED to win within the next two years. Our current core can probably last three more years, and with the right moves we will have the young talent and $$ needed to secure a bright future as well.

You might as well blow the team up if you're going to say that. This team has TWO years to win, then we'll have to rebuild somewhat around a new core of players besides Lee/Z/Prior/Aram/Barrett. I think two years is the perfect time to aim to win it all in. Regarding this offseason we can make moves that improve us for next season, but are shortsighted or make moves that make us better and are not shortsighted. I think a lot of the big FA names thrown around are shortsighted. After that two year mark you wont NEED to find a new core. Ages of these players in the 2009 season. Lee-33 Past his prime but likely still productive Zambrano- 27 going on 28 Prior- 28 Aramis- 30 going on 31 tail end of prime Barrett- 32 being a catcher, likey past his prime Thats a solid veteran core to play with. Hopefully within those three offseasons we can aquire some younger players that will take the reigns. There aren't too many promising players in our farm system, but a lot can change in a few years.

The point isnt as well made however. Its such a small sample size that some oddities occur such as performing better with 3 walks than with 4 walks. The previous data leaves no doubt.