WrigleyField 22

My middle school gym teacher used to do some some regional recruiting for a college and he said that if the pitcher was throwing a curveball before 16 he wouldn't even look at him.

I hate the comments like that which try to make the management look even worse. (I'm not trying to attack you personally because it happens a lot). This organization is terrible for its decisions regarding player signings, hitting philosophy, player development, coach, GM, etc etc. The decisions regarding names on the jerseys are not stopping this team from getting better. Its the boneheads running everything. I would bet Hendry doesn't even have say in this. Theres probably a special department with people who don't have any part of the baseball side of things that make these decisions. Plenty of teams can put together a good team and worry about stuff like this. I geuess I'm analyzing it too deeply and its just meant to be funny, but I don't get such comments.

You can't really judge them on their limited major league totals. However, you can look at minor leaue totals. Theriot, while always being old for his league has career numbers of .265 .355 .331 While the OBP is solid, the slugging leaves much to be desired. Those are his 5 previous seasons, not including this year. Cedeno, while being young for his leagues has career numbersof .265 319 .376 Obviously the OBP leaves MUCH to be desired. With his slightly higher SLG, his OPS edges Theriot .692 to .686. As 2B I don't see either of these guys being anything other than career backups. Cedeno has had one great season(between AAA and MLB) one decent season (AA) and everything else has been bad. Theriot, while showing great plate discipline for the past 4 years has never really had acceptable SLG numbers other than last year at AA. With the right coach and a switch back to SS, Cedeno could become a starter. Unless Theriot develops power next year at the age of 27, hes just a backup. Fotenot's minor league numbers make him look capable of being a .800 OPS player. He has been a AAA player for three years now and will like Theriot be 27 next season. Maybe he's the best 2B prospect of the three, but he needs to be given a chance soon. Maybe they will all just brige the gap for Patterson, but he has not lived up to the hype of last year. Theriot only a few years (2-3?) started hitting right handed full-time...I believe he was an experimental switch hitter before that...you can basically throw those stats out. Well his past 2-3 years do reflect that as he has had a consistently higher AVG and in turn OBP, but his SLG has yet to catch up. I don't think that his OBP is good enough to ignore his lack of power.

Just looking at stats his OBP is too tied to his AVG to really be a top of the order guy, though its likely his speed will get him placed there because of the speedy leadoff guy mold. Power wise he hasnt ever shown the SLG neccessary to hit in the middle of the order(other than a half season .554 last year), but he could add muscle to his frame and gain more power as he matures. Either he needs to learn more plate discipline and become a top of the order guy or add some muscle and hit somewhere 4-6. If he can manage to do both he could become a deadly 3 or 4 hitter.

You can't really judge them on their limited major league totals. However, you can look at minor leaue totals. Theriot, while always being old for his league has career numbers of .265 .355 .331 While the OBP is solid, the slugging leaves much to be desired. Those are his 5 previous seasons, not including this year. Cedeno, while being young for his leagues has career numbersof .265 319 .376 Obviously the OBP leaves MUCH to be desired. With his slightly higher SLG, his OPS edges Theriot .692 to .686. As 2B I don't see either of these guys being anything other than career backups. Cedeno has had one great season(between AAA and MLB) one decent season (AA) and everything else has been bad. Theriot, while showing great plate discipline for the past 4 years has never really had acceptable SLG numbers other than last year at AA. With the right coach and a switch back to SS, Cedeno could become a starter. Unless Theriot develops power next year at the age of 27, hes just a backup. Fotenot's minor league numbers make him look capable of being a .800 OPS player. He has been a AAA player for three years now and will like Theriot be 27 next season. Maybe he's the best 2B prospect of the three, but he needs to be given a chance soon. Maybe they will all just brige the gap for Patterson, but he has not lived up to the hype of last year.

I'm a little stupider for reading that quote.

Aramis does hustle!!!!! Bynum does suck!!!!!

You could probably argue if everyone ranked their favorite rock bands of all time, that these two would be 1-2... but its possible that with some pissed off Zep fans and a strong Who contingency that neither of these bands actually win. Now the Beatles still may pull out the win, but the Who have a chance. Seeding declaring the winner?

Yet they aren't. 44-32. For the record I like both bands, but my love for the underdog took over and I voted for the one I thought would have less votes- Queen.

Cruz would be a great 4th OF for next year. Also referenced in the thread was Pagan who could be a decnt 5th OF.

I don't care enough about the outcome that much, so don't think I'm trying to create some conspiracy or force an issue, but... Is there anyway the Mods could see who voted in the polls. Looking at that and seeing how many of each were from "new members" (if thats been tried at all) could clear up the true winner. I just say that because you figure someone on either side might complain that such votes made it unfair. Moot point IMO, neither of these bands win.

You might as well blow the team up if you're going to say that. This team has TWO years to win, then we'll have to rebuild somewhat around a new core of players besides Lee/Z/Prior/Aram/Barrett. I think two years is the perfect time to aim to win it all in. Regarding this offseason we can make moves that improve us for next season, but are shortsighted or make moves that make us better and are not shortsighted. I think a lot of the big FA names thrown around are shortsighted. After that two year mark you wont NEED to find a new core. Ages of these players in the 2009 season. Lee-33 Past his prime but likely still productive Zambrano- 27 going on 28 Prior- 28 Aramis- 30 going on 31 tail end of prime Barrett- 32 being a catcher, likey past his prime Thats a solid veteran core to play with. Hopefully within those three offseasons we can aquire some younger players that will take the reigns. There aren't too many promising players in our farm system, but a lot can change in a few years. Just expanding on what I just wrote: Looking at who might form that "core" Hopefully we can find a way to let Murton play next year he solidifies himself as the number 2 hitter for this team for years to come. EPatt looks ready to contribute by 2009 as a full time. That two year gap would be bridged beautifully by Loretta (2 yrs 6mil?). Hopefully those guys would be our 1-2 hitters to build around. Pie would be ready for a 2008 bottom of the order guy. I'll be consevative and say hes still bottom of the order in 2009, with the chance to become a middle of the order guy(if he can develop that power) by 2010. After 2009/2010, You would figure is when some of our current core starts to go.. Lee is signed through 2010 Barrett could sign a nice 3 year deal after 2007.. Ramirez if he opts out and renogotiates would probably get a new deal bringing him to 2010/2011. Prior and Z will still be relatively young and hopefully anchoring our rotation along with some of the nice young guys we have now. (Side note, with the way we have developed arms, I'm not too concerned. Yea we may need a FA signing here and there to bridge the gap, but cost in the rotation hopefully wont be an issue. Things could change drastically, but we are covered with cheap talent for a least a while longer likely). Some other guys who we could see start to break in around 2009(bench roles) are Dopriak and Fox (Lee and Barretts replacements?) The next year Colvin might be ready to come and fill the bottom of the order. This requires him to skip a level, but hopefully being a college guy he makes an easier tranistion. This group of position players leaves little room for error, but there are some notable free agents along the way if you can't find a young guy to fill a hole. Some of these are: 2008-Michael Young, Brad Wilkerson,Milton Bradley,Abreu,Suzuki 2009-Baldelli, Mo Pena, Hank Blalock, Kearns and then the "big two" in 2010 if you are struggling to replace the core (yes I'm getting ahead of myself, but humor me) Cabrera and Mauer. Two positions 3B and C that could need replacing. Yea you'd expect whatever two teams that have them to lock them up. Besides prospects and FA, you may also find we can aquire core position players by trading pitchers whom you don't want to pay big bucks for if we can continue to develop replaceable young pitching talent like we have. The options are there. So you let 2007 be a developmental year 2008/2009 core Lee Barrett Ramirez Zambrano Prior FA signings (Loretta07? Young 08? Wilkerson 08?) -------- Future "core guys" EPatt Pie Murton Zambrano Prior Any of our current young pitchers FA money we have cuz we arent still paying Carlos Lee from that 5 yr deal in 2007 Lesser "core future": Fox Dopriak Colvin -lesser as they are farther away and have more legitamite concerns about ability to reach ceilings This post might seem all over the place and gets ahead of things way to much, but I typed it all to maybe help prove we dont NEED to win within the next two years. Our current core can probably last three more years, and with the right moves we will have the young talent and $$ needed to secure a bright future as well.

You might as well blow the team up if you're going to say that. This team has TWO years to win, then we'll have to rebuild somewhat around a new core of players besides Lee/Z/Prior/Aram/Barrett. I think two years is the perfect time to aim to win it all in. Regarding this offseason we can make moves that improve us for next season, but are shortsighted or make moves that make us better and are not shortsighted. I think a lot of the big FA names thrown around are shortsighted. After that two year mark you wont NEED to find a new core. Ages of these players in the 2009 season. Lee-33 Past his prime but likely still productive Zambrano- 27 going on 28 Prior- 28 Aramis- 30 going on 31 tail end of prime Barrett- 32 being a catcher, likey past his prime Thats a solid veteran core to play with. Hopefully within those three offseasons we can aquire some younger players that will take the reigns. There aren't too many promising players in our farm system, but a lot can change in a few years.

The point isnt as well made however. Its such a small sample size that some oddities occur such as performing better with 3 walks than with 4 walks. The previous data leaves no doubt.

Yea, but so is Santo right? And we all love him :D

But don't our guys have to clear waivers too or at least have no team worse than Atlanta claim them in order to trade with the Braves? It's hard for me to believe someone not claiming a Pie or Marshall, etc... They could be sent as PTNBL though correct? A PTBN can't be on the 25 man roster, but currently Marshall is on the DL so could just be returned to AAA afterwards and Mateo was likely only up here for a short stint anyway so he could be sent back down, allowing Guzman to get some starts.If this doesn't work we can send players not on the 40man, correct? Maybe we have to do Veal/Pawalek/Gallagher(:()/ EPatt/Fox type guys.

I disagree on how you rate Guzman, but otherwise agree. I'd rate him ahead of Nolasco. A trade for Andruw, if the Cubs picked up his full salary, would still probably need someone like Pie or Gallagher or Veal (along with Guzman). While Guzman has the stuff over Nolasco, Nolasco was coming off a great year in AA at the age of 22. All of his other seasons besides 2004 were just as good. I guess Guzmans health may have restored a lot of the value he lost, but we have seen him stuck at AAA and not doing so great. Maybe they are equal, but I don't see Guzman as having more trade value than Nolasco did.

The only way I see the package not including Pie is if its EPatt they want. You figure you have to at least give them our best 2B Prospect. Hows their catching prospects? Maybe they'd like Soto/Reyes/Reed and EPatt? Doubtful, but maybe offer higher end pitching prospects and we could hold onto Pie.

The plate appearences wont matter if the o-fer of the difference still has him on top!!! Cubbie Kool Aid!

That might be enough to get Hollandsworth back. Maybe Jaime Navarro. Oh, I forgot...........when posting a trade I should overvalue whoever the Cubs are trading for and undervalue the Cubs prospects......... my bad! Jerome Williams is a 24 year old that has MLB experience and decent stuff. Angel Guzman is a 24 year old that has MLB experience and GREAT stuff. Theriot is a good player. He's also young and cheap. Berg is a 22 year old with decent upside. Atlanta develops their prospects as well. What do some of you guys/gals think it will take? I can't wait for the Prior/Pie/Guzman/Brownlie/Petrick/Veal.........etc. Ricky Nolasco was better and had more value than any of these guys and along with two other decent prospects (one high cieling/low floor, another low ceiling high floor) was able to net Pierre. Nolasco>Guzman... if it were 2003 this wouldnt be the case, but its not.. Mitre=Williams Pinto>Berg And Theriot puts this deal over the top? Yea we overpaid for Pierre and might be able to underbid a bit for Jones, but it wont be so extreme. This may all be a moot point as we likely didnt claim Jones...

I doubt the Cubs made a claim, but for fun, I'll say they did. Marshall, Pie, Mateo- You figure Pie is definitely apart of such a deal. To hope otherwise is unrealistic. I'd throw in a second/third tier pitching prospect if they were willing to throw in a positional prospect of about equal value. Someone like Ryu, Wells, Williams, Shaver, Layden, Johnson. I would be willing to do this just because if we lost Pie our farm would go from bad in positional prospects to downright pitiful.

Plus hopefully the addition of a big bat, and Aramis Ramirez 04'/05' I think we could afford to have 3 #8 hitter in the lineup Nothing like banking on career years to win a championship :D Your "career year" 2007 Chicago Cubs CF- Pierre .327 .378 .415 2B- Soriano .300 .332 .547 1B- Lee .335 .418 .662 3B- Ramirez .318 .373 .578 C- Barrett .338 .398 .559 LF- Lee .305 .366 .525 RF- Jones .288 .320 .498 SS- Izturiz .288 .330 .381 -Of course we get both Lee and Soriano! For SP We get Zamrano(any season baby!) and 2003 Prior... Of course we sign Zito(02) and Schmidt(03). 2001 Wade Miller anchors the back end. Bullpen? Who cares. Let 06 Rusch close for all I care, he wont blow our 10 run leads. For Kicks- Closer: 03 Wood! On second thought Wood anchors the back end of the rotation and Vances famous Wade Miller for Closer BandWGN takes off again!(I was a proud memeber btw) Bench? 05 Niefi 01 Nevin 05 Murton-over full season 05 Cedeno-over full season WHO CARES WHO CARES W.S. HERE WE COME -we also get goat and bartman in prime and whole thing blows up Oh man, I wanna go play MVP Baseball now :lol:

I remember recognizing this guy on the Boise Roster last year becuase he was so young. This year after putting up a .275 BA in Peoria he got a promotion to Daytona and is hitting .278. While his OBP and SLG were underwhelming, his BA gives and indication he must have a lot of natural ability at a young age, he is only 19. Stats For anyone who is more familiar with the minor league system and has seen guys play, does he have enough natural ability and raw skills to become a top prospect? He is obviously young and at a high level, but is there enough talent there, that with the right coaching he could flourish? Also whats his defense like?

Am I crazy for thinking that Hendry's comments that lead us to believe he wants to keep Izturiz is just him talking him up/trying to make the trade sound good and that he may be looking to trade him as part of a bigger deal to improve a spot in the offseason? I think the answer is yes(about being crazy) but would like to hear your opinions.

Exactly. He's a fantastic LOOGY. Problem is, he's faced 112 righties this year as compared to 79 lefties. What the hell Dusty's thinking with this guy is anyone's guess. His numbers against lefties this season have been really, really good. Against righties...things get ugly. Cripes, he has a .72 WHIP against lefties and a 1.04 WHIP against righties. This is like Mike Remlinger all over again. Ugh. Its even worse. At least with Rem we knew Dusty was just too stupid to grasp the reverse splits concept. With Ohman, Dusty could follow his 'convential wisdom' and still be right.