WrigleyField 22

I'm saying if you didn't hold Peppers, whether it was called or not, Rogers would be a pancake on the ground. Now the outcome was roughly the same. The Packers lost yards. But from a general viewer perception it feels like the Packers lost a touchdown because of holding (one specific example) but really the penalty they committed led directly to their ability to make the play. Same with two plays where it feels like the Packers lost two interceptions, when in reality, the penalties led to those would be interceptions. They didn't lose anything or give anything away. Now the penalty where your DB tried to flip Forte was an example of a penalty that was a "giveaway". Its like the player who blocks a guy in the back on a punt return, but he is 20 yards from the play. Those are discipline issues that can be corrected. Constantly holding or interfering is just being over matched. Throw in a lot of those offside or illegal formation penalties as well, since those lineman were trying to get any advantage they could.

Cheating really? I guess when a basketball player fouls at the end of the game on purpose to stop the clock, that's cheating too right? "Cheating is an act of lying, deception, fraud, trickery, imposture, or imposition. Cheating characteristically is employed to create an unfair advantage, usually in one's own interest, and often at the expense of others,[1] Cheating implies the breaking of rules. " Yea, I think that holding, pass interference, and roughing the passer all fit under there. Fouling in basketball is cheating too. The fact that its done because the penalty may not outweigh the reward is irrelevant. Anyways, the point I was making was that your line looked pretty good for instance (compared to the Bears), but due in large part to the holding of Peppers that kept happening. So in order for that strategy to be successful will almost always rely on not getting caught. If you hadn't held him at certain points, or interfered with receivers at certain points, they may have not looked as good as they did.

The Packers did outplay the Bears tonight, primarily by cheating.

So tonight Pat Mannelly will set the Bears' franchise record for games played. Crazy. http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=7117

heh, even then he looked better passing out of the pocket

Just because he doesn't agree to an extension, doesn't mean we should trade him. Let him hit free agency under the new CBA when he will likely be in for a rude awakening and possibly not even make 8 digits. I actually think considering his Plantar fasciitis, the looming lockout and new CBA, and the fact that its an extension, that we offered too much.

What do the Nets have to lose?

Bring on the Metal Bats!!!!!!!!! I understand that this is sarcasm, but how did you just make that jump?

Ah hem http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/1993.htm http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2007.htm Even better example! I just remember the Cowboys one from an Emmitt Smith book I read while in grade school.

Ah hem http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/1993.htm

Why? We still wouldn't have taken more LBs on the 53 man if we had Williams.

The more I think about it, I don't even think they would really want Noah. They would have to take on Deng, assuming there isn't a third team who would flip an expiring their way. So thats quite a bit of salary already. Then Noah is on the last year of his contract, so they'd be dishing out a ton of money for him. Wouldn't they rather get 3 cheap years of Taj, who is probably a better Nene complement and the additional picks (I'm assuming if we substitute Noah for Taj it would be at the expense of a draft pick or two). Deng, Taj, Charlotte Pick, Chicago 2011 & 2013 first rounders or Deng, Noah, (and all the money tied to them) and either Charlotte pick OR our 2011 & 2013 picks Which is better for the team looking to rebuild after losing their star?

I don't necessarily have a problem with taking a hit this year by trading for Melo except for the fact that I really do struggle envisioning a team built around him and Rose. Someone mentioned what worked for Denver: having guys like JR Smith on the outside and Nene/Martin crashing the boards. The problem is we don't have the shooters like that, other than Korver who is a 25min guy at most. Billups is also a really good 3PT shooter. Thats something Rose could develop yet, but right now he hasn't proven it. Then Boozer is obviously better than Nene or Martin, but to ask him to simply crash the boards and fill the role they did is way under-utilizing him. He is going to be most effective as the number 2 option where Rose is running the P&R with him a lot. In order to do that, you are going to minimize Melos effectiveness. Now the team would have enough talent to be a playoff team for a long team, but I really question its ability to get to the next step. Now a Deng/Taj for Melo would have the same limitations really, but at least we would still have our top 10 starting center. Theres a balance you can take IMO between overwhelming talent and good fit. You can deal with a certain amount of poor fits if the talent is there, see Miami Heat. We'd be a lesser version of the Miami Heat, with less opportunity to add role players.

haha, thats good

I keep trying to justify why it would be worth it to move Deng and Noah for Melo and I just can't do it. I don't see a team in which the sum of everyone is greater than the individual parts. While its true you pretty much need a superstar to win in the NBA, every NBA champion also had a team in which the teammates more or less complemented each other. I look at this line up and don't see it: Rose-Watson Brewer-Bogans Melo-Korver-Johnson Boozer-Gibson Gibson-Thomas-Asik For Melo to be the player he is, I'm not sure that Rose and Boozer are utilized to the best of their advantage. We haven't really improved the 3PT with that team much either, our biggest weakness. And in order to do so we've taken a sizeable chunk out of our rebounding ability. Then there is the defense that we lose. I could deal with the defensive lost or the rebounding loss. Both? I don't think so. Now while I don't think the current team is a contender, neither is the new team. Closer? Maybe, but not enough closer. Not when we may very well already have a player capable of being in Melo's league within the next 1-2 years. A lot of star players make the big jump their third season: Melo, Bosh, Paul all made clear jumps in their third year. That doesn't guarantee anything for Rose, but I'm willing to put my faith in the chance that he will, especially when you look at his stats were like when he was healthy last year. And now he has the perfect post player to play off of. Melo would take a lot of that away, and I'm not sure how much of a net positive it would be, if at all. The Bulls are set up with many assets come December 15. I think they can be a little picky. Sure people will tell you players like Melo don't come available all the time, but I'd say that is no longer the case in today's league. Star players are involved in trade discussions all of the time now. We'll have our chance.

Agreed, I would have taken him on the Bulls for that. Would have even given him partially guaranteed.

Celtics to sign Delonte West.

Rudy Fernandez does not warrant that sort of additional attention. No, but Delonte West would. I'm actually beginning to like West as an option better than Rudy. More well rounded offensive game and can play defense. Sure he is liable to go crazy, but Rudy is liable to just leave for Spain. At least West going crazy would be entertaining. Let's keep our assets.

Embrace it.

I'd say most Bulls fans have grown to adore Noah and his ugliness. If West could come here and put up his career averages without pulling any more desperado moves, I think the same will happen. Besides it's not like we're attractive anyways. Boozer, Deng, and Gibson all look funny. Bring on the ugly.

Well the Wolves only had to pay $500,000 of the contract as it wasn't fully guaranteed, so it was a cost cutting move. If he wasn't crazy, he was worth the contract he was signed to though.

So, Delonte West was waived. If the Bulls can't make a fair trade for Rudy(ie-2011 First round pick), would you go for it? Rose-Watson Brewer-West Deng-Korver-Johnson Boozer-Gibson Noah-Thomas-Asik His vet minimum would be $1,069,509. I think we could get him at that or slightly more on a two year deal with the second unguranteed. Sign an extra D-League level guard and big man, and call it an offseason.

Seems like the last five pages is all about Lebron. He isn't on the Bulls. Can we split this to leave it to Bulls stuff?

I'm interested to see what else they have up their sleeve. They will want to use all of their available cap space before they start handing out the minimum contracts because the contracts will take up more space than the holds for them and they'd essentially be wasting cap space. I'm sure they'd like to get Fisher or anyone else to commit soon.

If the Miller contract for 5/$30 is evenly spread, that leaves 8 million for 7 players. Based on my calculations and assumptions, they have a little over 6M for 7 players, and with the minimum roster holds, the most they could spend on any one player is about 3.3M The one large assumption is that they retain Joel Anthony for his QO. If they were to renounce him, they could spend almost 4 on another player still. The other assumption being that Miller's contract is backloaded as much as they can (and assuming it isn't a S&T which could allow them to backload it more)