WrigleyField 22

What we know about Vitters: Strong contact/hitting ability Acceptable hitting results when he has been age appropriate with enough sample Improved walk rate dating back to 2012 Still overall below average patience/approach Acceptable history of K rate, though naturally did go up with increased walk rate Average athlete with good frame Arm that projects for OF Moved off 3B Putrid MLB stint Slightly split heavy in his results. Questions: Injury concerns from last year How will he adjust to LF Will power develop? Was MLB stint fluky/recoverable? Now as far as time goes, this is basically his age 24 season. He has a full option year to burn and his tasks to overcome aren't huge. Yes we know what his downsides will be, but the question marks aren't too unusual. Picking up an easy defensive position and filling out power into mid to late twenties aren't monumental tasks. Enough to put a guy with pretty solid stat lines in 5 minor league season in the bottom of a top 20, but not enough to dismiss him. Even last year he was looked at more favorably and the worst thing he did was get hurt. It sucks, but taking away the lens of trying to view him as what he once was, the year in lost time isn't too big a deal. He also is being rated at a new position. Is a defensive spectrum shift and a lost year enough to drop him so far (though granted I guess you felt differently about his ranking last year too). He doesn't have the time of a 18 year old or even a college draftee, but also not nearly as much to prove. Just continue his small progress in plate approach and do what a lot of mid twenties players do- fill out and hit the ball farther. He's got a small chance of fizzling out completely. He has zero chance if being a star. His range is somewhere between a few years of MLB backup and platoon pattern/average starter for a few years. Not too sexy, but enough to think you could get some valuable cost controlled years out of him and rank him around this spot when his field of competition is a lot of guys with nothing above A on their resume.

So where do you rank him?

Well, I was joking. I am sure he will make a fine A ball coach one day. Wait is this a joke again? Can't tell. And are you joking about not wanting him in the organization but you're also joking about his value in being as a A ball coach or are you joking about his value in our system but you actually see his valid as a player and you're making another joke about his actual value being as a A ball coach? I just can't keep up with your joke of a post.

you took the bait, why did you take the bait? I can't help myself?

I'm struggling to think of teams that would dismiss Olt or Vitters unless you're just taking the stance that teams with good players just don't like any prospects. I know I'm personally not basing their value on our major league roster.

Lost in any of my defense of Vitters is also your outrageous stance that you apparently can't wait for him to be out of the organization. I get someone like raw having him at 25 as opposed to 16-20, but to completely dismiss him is crazy.

I'm okay with remaining optimistic about a average athlete 23 year old with enough arm strength and with an option year being able to learn and provide positive value at one of the easiest defensive positions.

What does this even mean? It's not just athleticism that makes a quality outfielder. The instincts necessary to take proper angles to the ball aren't just something born of athletic ability. And since lots of people talked about his inability to stick at 3B from the day he was drafted, I see no reason to assume they would all be trying to force him to play a position he cannot play. Well I didn't mean to say he projects as a LF from day one (hence the word develop) but with his makeup he isn't limited from learning the position, such as someone like, Vogelbach who just has physical limitations. Even if he's a little slow and his arm is about average he could project to provide just fine defense with the right development. His issues at 3B really shouldn't carry over as they seemed to be more about the reaction/read than say arm strength. The range that's needed as a LF is not the same type as a 3B. And if we're viewing him as a prospect, we're just projecting what's possible within his toolset (again with proper development). He gets a fresh slate. Sure he needs to learn quick but it is the easiest position which benefits him. The comment about him sticking at 3B in another organization I think is true. It's perhaps a moot point since he is in our system and not another system. But I kind of throw it out there because if we're looking at Josh Vitters the LF and not Josh Vitters the 3B, it's a good thing were making the switch while he's still young enough to build a defensive comfort with the position. In fact we have one whole option year to burn letting him do it in Iowa every day if we want. He's actually not in that do or die position even though he's been around so long it feels like he should be. He still has a lot of development time as a prospect. Even next year when he'll be out of options, he'll still be pretty appropriately aged as a rookie with several years of cheap pre-arb salaries in which he could provide a solid platoon/bench bat while still working on his overall game. Also teams absolutely keep guys with Vitters profile at 3B well past the point of the not being able to play the spot if there's no one else there. And the exact reason is because 1Bor LF are such relatively easy positions to shirt down to in the defensive spectrum.

He has always been age appropriate or young and save an MLB stint he shouldn't have been called up for, has had varying levels of success, never being truly overmatched and eventually adapting at levels where he initially struggled, with continued PAs. Now with his injury last year his clock is starting to really tick, but it's not like he's out of options. In his short stint last year he showed improved patience right at the cusp of normalizing. While he lacks the best approach he's always been a guy with pretty good hitting tool. Now the move off 3B hurts as far as prospect rating goes, but there is no athletic reason he can't develop into a plus fielder at LF and I believe any other organization would still be developing him as a 3B. But at this point it's probably just better he gets a head start on his OF development. Certainly he has more pressure on the bat now but with the potential and pedigree to maybe handle that. I read a lot of comments now where they just want the high ceiling low level guys at this point, but unlike someone like Watkins, Vitters ceiling isn't gone, we've just gotten to experience his struggles at a different level. He maybe doesn't still have the ceiling you'd expect out of a former number three prospect, but he still appears to be able to hit and power almost always has growth for a 24/25 year old player. His biggest black mark is a poor MLB stint. Nothing else is a major red flag that really indicates he can't be MLB player. That's the best pitch I have for Vitters. The most promising thing for me is the possibility of increased walk rate he showed. Really want regular AB to see if that is for real, even if it's at AAA (would be beneficial to focus on LF reps too rather than scarce pitch hitting ABs)

If the value is there I'd do it as early as round 4, but it's not a priority and you rarely get good QB value in that range.

Wtf is a hipster GM. Someone shop some skinny jeans and handlebar stache on Emery pls

Is a two gap scheme necessarily incompatible with scoring? There's so few true two gap teams I'm not sure there's a definitive answer but in theory the front three are supposed to be freeing up the playmaking back 8 to make plays who should be more able to score off a turnover more easily. Where does a classic 3-4 team like the Steelers rank as far as takeaways when they still had a top D a few years ago?

As long as it doesn't show Yadier's neck. Dude has a neck tat, yuck!

What I'm most curious is whether it's going to be simply varying the fronts or actual schematic changes, ie- asking your lineman to run a 2 gap scheme. I think it's very likely we'll see a lot of the same principles, but to the casual glance may look a lot different just based on alignment. Bottom line is there's no excuse to not significantly improve upon last years results. It will be interesting to see personnel wise though if they go for certain characteristics or just go best available and stay true to just maximizing guys' strengths. We're pretty far from a true 3-4, but a successful hybrid approach is attainable

Hes the next Khalil Greene

As discussed before I think with those guys bunched in that 20-35 range you have a shot one falls within range to trade up in Round 2. So even better to just grab the best defensive player in Rd 1.

Regarding the odds of a guy with no previous AA experience and not a full season of A+ getting a Sept call up, I'd bump up the odds a little on any guy that's already on the 40 man. Still pretty low. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Vitters followed by Cabrera and Ramirez (in either order) for me. Odd since Cabreras Cub career has a real good shot of ending soon, but if he stays this area seems appropriate. Couple of others I could consider but at this point 5 spots or so don't represent as big of talent swings. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

He'd be back half of the teens for me probably.

Is LeBron a free agent in 2010? We should get that guy. Dudes overrated. Talk to me when he wins a champ.

Anyone ever get bored on Madden and create a 499 pound QB with all 99 ratings?

No, Papa Johns is still okay (hello, Garlic Butter Sauce). The closest you can get to bad pizza is St Louis style. But even then it's like, usually fine. And I like Giordano's the best of the Chicago Stuffed/Deep Dish styles. But even Chicago thin crust blows away all other pizzas I've ever eaten.

I gave up after 3. But even with all the pages of texts that still not the full findings presumably, so might as well wait for the official report before I flip my thoughts one way or the other.

Currently 67,882. Makes me feel okay, like I'll actually be in a spot to get them one day.

No automated way to do that I think is the problem, hence pain in the ass. But with how close it is, an run-up vote with only one choice may be in order.