Donzo1679666396

Why? I totally understand that opinion from a casual fan. A casual fan probably wants to see BA & HR numbers, then judge from there. Obviously, posters here on North Side Baseball’s minor league board are more knowledgeable than the casual fan. For some reason the Cubs have aggressively promoted Vitter. I guess he has the personality that can handle that challenge. Not everyone can say that. So far, this approach has succeeded, with this year being cut short as he was surging in the 2nd half. With his considerable improvement in his walk rate, which is vital to his long term success, he had another productive year of improvement… As I mentioned in another post, I do think a longer stay at a level would help his defense. With him always having to figure out a new advanced league, it’s not conducive to defensive focus. The last thing to consider is the difference between AA & AAA for hitters. It all depends on what is best for Viiters development.. If he has trouble with more talented pitchers, AA would probably be better for him. If he has trouble with craftier pitchers, then AAA would probably be better for him. Also, with the Cubs system, considering league & park factors. Tennessee is tougher than Iowa.

LOL! How silly…

Yeah, big jumps in plate discipline are rare--- but Vitters already started that this year. He made a huge jump this year over his career numbers & was really cruizing before he got hurt. His walk rate in that 2nd half surge was 12%--- Yep, very small sample size, but again this type of improvement is Vitters pattern, so it does help validate the sample size. EVERY time he struggles at a level or with a part of his game, he figures it- this is how he rolls. He was on this path again this year, then unfortunately got hurt. With his track record, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt…The consistent hole in his game is his walk rate, which has capped his OB & OPS numbers. We’ll see how his improvement continues next year. On his defense, it’s still about the same from what I’ve been told. I think the aggressive promotions haven’t helped his defense. With Vitters constantly being challenged offensively, it doesn’t help with defensive improvement.

1. Archer 2. Vitters 3. Lee 4. B. Jackson 5. McNutt Archer has put it altogether at AA with a ceiling of an Ace…Vitters’ improved walk rate is a big story this year- too bad he got hurt as he was going into his customary surge… B. Jackson’s K’s are an issue- this is why I have him lower than most.

With a much improved walk rate/obp, I could see it... But yeah, it's high.

Got this from a poster called beardown on my Cubs chat on Skype... I liked it & thought it would be good here. .345/.441/.724/1.165 With word coming down Vitters appears done until the AFL, thought I would post some thoughts on his progress this year. Real nice run to end the year for, Josh. Considering his BABIP was under.240 most of the season, his final numbers are adequate for a 20 year old at AA. We all know of his pattern of initially struggling at each level, then performing much better before a promotion. It sure appeared Josh was continuing this pattern of “figuring out” his league. Too bad we weren’t able to see this to fruition this year. The most exciting aspect of his play in 2010 was his commitment to improving his discipline and walk rate. His 21 walks in 316 at bats was a significant improvement over his career walk rate. I will want to see this continue in the AFL. Next season will be important for Josh. Will want to see a walk rate 8 to 9% with an OPS of .900+ in AA and AAA. Also want to see improved play at 3B, or a move to 1B may be needed. With what Josh showed this year, especially after the All-Star break, I’m confident he will meet my expectations in 2011.

With his PH HR yesterday, Vitters is 4-4 with 2 HR's & 2 doubles in his last 4 at bats. Lets see how he does in the 2nd half at AA. So far, he's figured out every league he's been in after initially struggling... Except now he's also improving his poor walk rate. :good:

http://www.realgmbaseball.com/src_wiretap_archives/20499/20100617/tigers_could_pursue_theriot_drew/

That's pretty nice. I wonder if there's an emphasis on this with him at Tennessee?!?

Link?

Colvin doesn't walk?... Early in his minor league career, you would be correct. This year with the Chicago Cubs, you are not correct. To lump Vitters with Burke & Lake is miscast... How can you discount Vitters age factor, his past successes & ability to improve at each level?

At best this is myopic… At worst it’s completely wrong. In that statement, how can you spin Boise 08, Peoria 09, 09 AFL, 10 DB & age factors as “pedestrian professional production”?!? If Vitters is performing like this in two years at AA, then you may have a point. Even then he’d be on the same track as Colvin.

Obviously. Did someone say it was absurd to question Vitters' future?

You can't possibly be serious. Concerns? Yes. Completely writing them off? Definitely not.Vitters completely doesn't walk whatsoever, and doesn't make enough good contact to even remotely justify that at all. oh, and he can't field. what's replacement level hitting for a bad fielding MLB first baseman, 750-800 OPS? yeah, i'll take the under. look at Burke's last 5 seasons and tell me what doesn't fit. you guys act like there are hordes of productive ballplayers that sucked in the minors for a long time until their tools somehow magically materialized one day, but that doesn't really ever happen. When did you write off Colvin? I'd bet dollars to doughnuts Vitters has a better season at Tennessee than Colvin did in 2008. Not to mention that Vitters is 2 years younger than Colvin was in 08.

Lets hope the mad genius thing is still working with these 1st round picks. I've hated the last 3 1st rounders, now it's 4 in a row. Didn't really mind Cashner, but the other 3 were awful. Hope this guy is as awful as Colvin & Jackson...

Yah, brutal bad... Worse than Colvin-- Just hope the Cubs luck out like the Colvin pick.

BA's Top 50... http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/?p=2249

Can the Cubs cut Cabrera, too. Can they retro cut Colvin?!?... Two years ago he ended his season at Tennessee, as he turned 23, with an OBP of around .310.

Ouch! I'm sure you're not alone--I bet there's lots of eatin' da crow goin' on.

This just adds to all the things said about him since the end of last season & his stint in the MWL in October.

As you said, "most" fans & "most" criticism...The ignorant hate spewed about Shark's potential & success is so contrary to fact it reeks of the aforementioned agenda. The subsequent rage against me for pointing this out is telling as well, lol. I didn't mean to get anyone upset, it's tough times out there. If hatin' on millionaire professional athletes helps them with their problems, so be it. If people actually are interested in Shark's situation, just read up on what he's been doing since the end of last season. What did he work on with Rothschild?!? What 4 pitches is he working on with 1 of them being unhittable in his last start for the Cubs & in Mexico?!? What were players saying about that have seen him in the majors & in the MWL?!? Couple all this with his extraordinary potential, newusername & all Cub fans certainly have legitimate hope that Shark can be a quality major league pitcher

Oh yeah, Samardzija still has a good chance at success. Ignore the complaints seen in this thread about him. The complaining reeks of an agenda... No matter how much Samardzija's success in 2008 at AAA & the majors bother some fans, he had that success. He just turned 25 & this will only be his 4th season as a full time pitcher( note: he's probably the best WR in the city of Chicago ). He has an outstanding arm & is developing off speed pitches. After his successful 2008, players made an adjustment to his heat. He struggled with those adjustments last year. Reports are he made big strides in his development with his off speed pitches. We'll see how accurate those reports are shortly. Weather it be in Chicago or Iowa, I hope he gets 30+ starts this year. If this happens we'll know a lot more about his future. If he can develop 1 good pitch he'll make a lot of money as a reliever. If he develop 2 or more pitches, he'll make a lot of money as a starter.

Wow--- With all due respect. you're way off base with your rant here. I totally understand a casual fan having that type of response. I'm much more of casual fan nowadays myself... But, with over 2,000 posts here on northside, you're no casual fan... Fact is Ray's management has already built a winner. Their formula is to continually build through the farm system, practice financial responsibility, be financially aggressive when prospects emerge as players in the majors & leverage other assets( players) into more prospects. Again, complaining about the the Jackson trade is a 20/20 hindsight thing & ignores the financial end of it. Both Jackson & Joyce have a lot of talent, but their production had been so-so going into this season. Jackson busted out this year, his FREE AGENT year- good for him. Joyce is still developing as a YEAR ONE major leaguer--- good business decision that has worked out better for Detroit this year. Now, will Detroit give him a 60 mil contract? ... Trading Kaz was the opposite of "squandering" core players. The trade now puts the Rays in financial position to retain Crawford & extend either Garza or Bartlett... These type of trades will continue for the Rays, & they will be good smart trades.,, Next up will probably be Upton. The Rays have Perez & Jennings ready to take his spot. In 20011, I could see Shields going. The Ray will have prospects like Barnes & Moore ready to take his spot. That's if Hellickson or McGee don't move in on him in 2010.... So forth & so on. Complaining about the Rays being "cheap" for not signing their top two picks this year is just silly... As I'm sure you know, the Rays will now get comp picks next year for not signing those picks- for their draft position, it's not a loss... The one thing the Rays have done well from the beginning is sign their draft picks with a very good track record of signing the right ones- They go over slot on 2-3 guys almost every year. This year they did it with 5 or 6 guys with the money they saved on their fisrt two picks. BTW, Tampa isn't Ray country- Tampa has too much beech envy to embrace anything in Pinellas county-- lol... Really, the whole fan thing is the same as it is with all the pro teams in Tampa Bay. Florida is a transient state-- people from other states move here & bring their allegiances with them. Like with the Bucs & Lightning, winning for awhile will take care of most of that.

+1

Good move by the Rays!... I live here in Ray country and know the situation very well--- The Rays didn't trade the Kaz of 04-07, the guy with great stuff & a cheap contract.... The current version of Kaz has OK stuff, awful control & a fat contract... Considering the Ray's financial situation & their sick farm system, good move Rays.... Hello Wade Davis! On Edwin Jackson-- for the Rays he was a guy that had great stuff, marginal success & was going into his last year before free agency... The Rays still had all five starters from their World Series team with Price & Niemann looking for spots... So, like with the Kaz trade, trading Jackson was a good business decision for the Rays.