Soul

Marmol has been used 3 days in a row 5 times, and he's been used in 3 out of 4 days 9 times. I guess I just don't think that's all that much for your 2nd best reliever. How many high pitch high stress outings has he had? We can't just use outings when it's convenient to use outings. It's high stress high pitch outings that should be MORE concerning right? How often in general, do the best relievers on their teams get used 3 days in a row and 4 out of 5? Is this normal. I don't have that data and I'd be curious to see it. I realize your point in that I don't remember what Lieber and Wuertz look like, and I don't think you've ever been ridiculous in portraying your views on this subject. I feel you are one of the most objective posters on this board and I appreciate that. Marmol is still on pace for 85 appearances, which is at the top of reliever appearances in most years. So, he's being used as frequently as anybody in baseball, which is a lot. The innings are down a little from when he was on pace for something like 85/105, but his frequency is still very high. It's a risky move with any reliever, especially one with a young arm. I can understand being upset that people were saying Lou is just as bad as Dusty. But the fact is, Marmol is clearly being used as much as anyone in the league, and his performance his falling off. It's completely appropriate for Cub fans to complain about their best reliever's arm being burned out. And that's on Lou.

It's amazing. Not too long ago he was the guy they put the special graphics up with fire and all the bells & whistles when he would come in to close a game for the Brewers. Now AAA hitting is pounding the living daylights out of him. Gotta wonder what happened. Did he just have a lucky year or two?

WUT

Don't lie. You know you would've been right with the 'OMGZ PRIOR PRIOR!!' crew had you been in the thread earlier yesterday... :D Yeah :) I had the luxury of missing that part of the thread, I can't lie. Fun to read though.

Padilla just went on the DL and Millwood has been hurt (not sure if he still is). Now is as good a time as any to let Texas know they have options. Expensive options, but options nonetheless. Heck, if Texas would pick up most of Marquis' contract, that's all I'd ask in return. Then we can read in the transactions page tomorrow that: Cubs trade Marquis to Texas for nobody. Wouldn't that be fun? Moving Him would help ease Hardens salary as well or make it an opening for a good bat. Isn't Harden's option year pretty reasonable too? It would be nice to unload Jason just to open up some salary for a bat.

Arroyo's last 2 starts have been good though. But I prefer to channel his 10 run meltdown against Toronto a couple weeks back. Gooooooo CUBS!

The only pitchers he had left was Harang, Volquez, and Cueto. I don't blame him for using Harang, but the problem I have with it is pitching him 3 days later. Should have called somebody up and skipped his start. Smart teams have forced position players to pitch rather than hurt their ace. One game, especially to the reds who aren't in the race, is not worth losing Harang for any period of time. Exactly. However, everyone who visits NSBB is quite aware that Dusty isn't smart. Heck, I would have put the big boy (Harang) at 1b and let whoever was playing 1st have a crack at the rotation. When a game gets to the point where you have zero bench left other than your other starters, it's time to let anyone who isn't a rotation guy pitch if they want to pitch. The outcome of one game should never take precedence over the outcome of a career. Yeah I'd throw a position guy first. Just tank it, who cares it's one game and not worth the many games Harang will probably now be out. Didn't some team just throw a position player a couple days ago too? Padres maybe?

LOL, this thread is funny. When will Rich start? Not sure. Someone said he might not start until after the all star break. OMGZ PRIOR PRIOR!! Len said he'll start Saturday. Rich is the man, he's great! 8-)

I like Griffey's comments in the article. Pretty funny stuff. "Nice knowin' ya." "Just paint a target on yourself." Ha. Good stuff Griff.

Give it a break. It sucks that Marmol won't be available when we might actually need him tomorrow or the day after, but if this kind of use ruins Marmol's arm then he wasn't going to last very long without an injury anyways. This move was stupid because of strategy - not because of injury related junk. At least in my opinion that is... You're welcome to your opinion, but I believe Marmol is still on pace to be near the top in innings for a reliever. Many others have started to notice Marmol is beginning to labor under the pressure. It's not just me. And I mean really, you're just dismissing that Marmol won't be available if we have a close game tomorrow. That gets the "oh well too bad" treatment? What is Marmol on the staff for anyway? You know he's not here to eat up innings with a big lead. We've got other pitchers for that, why not use the guys for why they are here? Umm I didn't dismiss that he won't be available tomorrow. I said that is why it was a bad move. I called it a bad strategic move. How is that even close to dismissing it? And regarding Marmol - he used to be a starting pitcher, and has no history of injuries. I'm going to guess that guys who are in the bullpen who are former starters and have no history of injury aren't that likely to get hurt as others....of course I have no evidence of that. Also, looking at his inning count can be somewhat misleading since a lot of his innings he was pretty dominant and threw few pitches. Starter vs. reliever is a totally different usage pattern. I don't think it's necessarily valid to say "he used to be a starter" and conclude that therefore he can lead the league in innings safely. True he's had no arm injuries, but he does have a bit of a history of tiring out. I'll repost a very good article that lays out what is being seen with Carlos, and let you decide for yourself (TT posted this in the Cubs forum, I think it's pretty darn instructive what's happening with Marmol): http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/anatomy-of-a-player-carlos-marmol/

Being the greedy bloke that I am, I want more.

Give it a break. It sucks that Marmol won't be available when we might actually need him tomorrow or the day after, but if this kind of use ruins Marmol's arm then he wasn't going to last very long without an injury anyways. This move was stupid because of strategy - not because of injury related junk. At least in my opinion that is... You're welcome to your opinion, but I believe Marmol is still on pace to be near the top in innings for a reliever. Many others have started to notice Marmol is beginning to labor under the pressure. It's not just me. And I mean really, you're just dismissing that Marmol won't be available if we have a close game tomorrow. That gets the "oh well too bad" treatment? What is Marmol on the staff for anyway? You know he's not here to eat up innings with a big lead. We've got other pitchers for that, why not use the guys for why they are here?

cmon cali i'm just havin a little fun

Ankiel's roid shipment went to the wrong hotel. Phils win.

Dear Lord Jesus here comes Ankiel with 2 runners on. Pixie dust > Lidge.

I would go with Mrs. Soto. There are many Mrs. Soto's CUBS WIN!!!!!!! I like this Ms. Soto: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/Suol_/MIIMG_00080_LG.jpg And he deserves every bit of her. (Blanca Soto, model, you might recognize her as the girl with the tattoo of "Mike" in the Yellow Book commercial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTnwWzNGPIQ ) Also, 4-2 Phillies That's seriously Geo's wife? Yowza. That's not his wife. Her name just happens to be Soto. Hell, now that Geo's a stud and everything, maybe he can go for it. Wouldn't even need to change her name.

So far here's how I feel about this night: :yahoo: :stickman: :yahoo: :stickman:

I would go with Mrs. Soto. There are many Mrs. Soto's CUBS WIN!!!!!!! I like this Ms. Soto: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/Suol_/MIIMG_00080_LG.jpg (Blanca Soto, model, you might recognize her as the girl with the tattoo of "Mike" in the Yellow Book commercial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTnwWzNGPIQ ) Also, 4-2 Phillies That's seriously Geo's wife? Yowza.

Well, we traded Dusty -- who likes to grind starters' arms into dust, for Lou -- who likes to pick a couple relievers and grind their arms to pieces. I guess I'll take the latter, but Jesus, why do it????

Good Lord Lou. Thanks for making this much more gut wrenching than it needed to be.

Yeah, I better think about changing my sig. This is a couple games in the last week where grand slam range actually meant something.

Sure, burn out Marmol, bring the tying run up. Great plan Lou! Dude! Will you not be satisfied until our best reliever's arm falls off?!?

I don't know how he does it, but I just hope he keeps doing it.

Sorry, but that sort of thinking, in and of itself, is very high risk. You cannot simply ignore the longterm ramifications just because some people have a 100 year itch. Yes, they are trying to win now, as well they should. But in doing so they've put themselves in an interesting situation for the future. The next owner is going to have to approve substantial increases in payroll, otherwise they are going to lose Dempster and Wood, and will need to rely on Harden staying healthy next year. They will once again have fewer trading chips to find what they need, and will have fewer internal options, including nobody on the roster who could reasonably fill-in for Fukudome or Soriano if they go down (a job Murton could have filled). Can't disagree. I think we've always been in that boat though. At least since our minor leagues started to run a little dry. I've read a few interesting articles in retrospect where people speculated that we didn't even have enough in the minors to acquire Harden. We were always going down the path of high payroll, IMO. We're just even more in that boat now.

Crossed the line? Are they making dead mother jokes? 9/11 cracks? Is it just one giant Aristocrats sketch? as told by Bob Saget It's more like "going to be fun when Harden hits the DL and all the Cub fans start crying" kind of comments. you have a very low (shallow? quick? what am i looking for here?) line. I'm not known for my thick skin, I'll give you that.