Soul

But at what cost? There's an opportunity cost to everything, and I think once you are fairly confident of making the playoffs, the utility of going for more rather than saving resources for later years isn't worth it. What are we saving for the future. All of this is being re-spent on Bradley anyway. We aren't proposing to improve, and we aren't saving anything up. What opportunity cost? We're essentially trying to tread water, and that's not even certain.

I think you're abdicating the reality that a better ballclub is still a better ballclub. Sure, there's an element of chance to the playoffs, but you can still increase your chances by having the better team. It's not *THAT* much of a roll of the dice. There's chance, yes, but it's not all chance.

There's a crapshoot aspect to the playoffs, but making your team worse is going to reduce your chances of winning it, regardless. Sure, and I didn't contend otherwise. The point was that they've probably marginally reduced their chances of winning the Central, and marginally reduced expectancy of winning the World Series. On the latter point, I'd guess that the amount at which they've reduced their WS win expectancy is far less than any variance from dumb luck. Obviously, I'd rather have the best team in the playoffs than the 8th-best team. The point is that the downgrades they've made don't mean they're "in trouble," the statement to which I responded It depends on what you consider to be in trouble. From your previous comment it sounds like you'll be content with another Central title and a quick sweep out of the playoffs. From that perspective I agree with you, we probably aren't in trouble. I'm expecting more. I'm expecting a WS run from this club. Are you seriously going to suggest that's not now in trouble, without further moves?

Weird. It's not like they get playoff appearances every year in Minny. Usually their fans are better than that, although I'm sure they will sell the tickets. Still, it is pretty sad. Those tickets would have been gone in 15 seconds if the Bears won the North. Arizona may yet be blacked out from that game if they can't move some tickets fast. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3805057 I thought once they got within a certain number the network airing the game bought the rest because of all the ad revenue they would lose. I was wrong. Minny is still in trouble, and apparently even more trouble than the Cardinals: http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/36985914.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUycaEacyU I guess fans are finally saying "to heck with it" in the face of a horrible economic climate, high prices, and a team that may have made the playoffs, but has hardly inspired much enthusiasm.

All I know is, we can talk about proposed trades, "done deals" and "wish lists" all we want, but every move that has actually materialized so far has resulted in a downgrade. At this rate we're going to be downgrading ourselves right out of the playoffs. But we beefed up Boise's lineup, so all's good. Not what I like seeing. If Bradley and Peavy don't both materialize, this team's in trouble. Trouble? I think that's a bit of an overreaction. Even with these numerous downgrades, who in the NL Central is better? The Cubs are still a heavy favorite to win the division. And, given the crapshoot nature of the playoffs, it's not like the Cubs -- with a rotation of Z, Harden, Demp, and Lilly -- doesn't have a reasonable chance to win in the postseason. Only a blind man would deny that these moves have been one downgrade after another. I'm just not sure how much the Cubs have really hurt their chances of winning the World Series. To be sure, they've got less margin of error in the Central, but they're still a prohibitive favorite. The first round is more of a crapshoot than the NLCS though. My goal isn't to win the Central again. It's to go further. I don't see another team on paper that is better in the Central, but I do see the margin of error being small enough now that we could be in trouble if a team jumps up and puts together a couple of extended winning streaks, which happens. And with the roster as it currently is, we'd have to get pretty lucky not to face superior opposition on our way to the WS.

I will miss him blowing up in the late innings and handing wins from the Brewers to their opponents.

Yes, DeRosa's "career year" was better than Miles' is. Also, you can go to the well with these 30+ players coming off a career year all you want. It's playing with fire. DeRosa worked out. Many others do not. If that's the philosophy of finding talent, I'd suggest a re-examination of that philosophy.

While talent rules in the NBA, I'd say you need some semblance of a head coach to be competitive. VDN is a complete joke. D'Antoni would have been so great for this club. Derrick Rose #'s would be even better than they are now, this team would be fun as well to watch and it would have helped in attracting FA's. Yes, he eventually would have worn out his time, but would have brought this team a point were they are ready to contend. The fact he isn't coaching this team is a complete and utter joke. Thanks Reinsdorf and Pax..again. Vinny is a joke. Lots of us said this when he was first hired too. I don't understand why Pax did this. It doesn't take much basketball knowledge to see that a guy with no coaching experience is not the right choice. I have little basketball expertise. How come I could see this and Pax couldn't? I'm just asking because that move seemed dumb at the time, and even dumber now. Even if Vinny somehow finds his coaching voice now, it will still have been a bad move because we've now lost time.

Escalating contracts are coming back to bite them The crappy economy is probably hurting worse right now. And also the Tribune declaring bankuptcy. That has a way of changing everything. I'm starting to think Hendry just got cut off at the knees.

It's better than Aaron Miles starting. Not by much! Can't wait for those games with Miles & Bako both starting too. Miles, Bako, Theriot and Joey Gathright could all be in the same starting lineup this season! :cry: gonna be fun in the game threads when Lou posts those lineups. It's amazing that a team with our payroll could even possibly field that lineup. For us, though, it's a likely occurence. I think Hendry's hiding the truth. The ol' kabash has been put on our payroll. Only way to explain this.

I certainly don't think so, no. Theriot really doesn't either though, and they're doing it anyway.

It's better than Aaron Miles starting. Not by much! Can't wait for those games with Miles & Bako both starting too. Miles, Bako, Theriot and Joey Gathright could all be in the same starting lineup this season! :cry: gonna be fun in the game threads when Lou posts those lineups.

Not even close. It's going to take a very good bat to replace the dropoff from DeRosa to Aaron Miles. If Hermida plays at the highest level I could realistically hope for he might make up that difference. I'd feel a lot better if Adam Dunn were being brought in. The dropoff is most likely going to be from DeRosa to Fontenot. I don't think Miles will start over Mike. And I don't think the dropoff between DeRosa and Fontenot next year is that huge. In games where Fontentot doesn't start, it will be Miles though. That's a dropoff. Also, Fonty's never been the full time starter. We don't really know if his numbers will hold up going against top starters all the time. But even assuming he's still good, you still have to consider those games where Lou puts Miles in.

All I know is, we can talk about proposed trades, "done deals" and "wish lists" all we want, but every move that has actually materialized so far has resulted in a downgrade. At this rate we're going to be downgrading ourselves right out of the playoffs. But we beefed up Boise's lineup, so all's good. Not what I like seeing. If Bradley and Peavy don't both materialize, this team's in trouble.

It's better than Aaron Miles starting. Not by much! Can't wait for those games with Miles & Bako both starting too.

Aaron Miles. That's quite a step down then, even with Bradley.

Who is going to be super sub now? We didn't just lose DeRosa as a 2nd base starter. We lost all the flexibility DeRosa gave us.

"Miles was big part of our success." :rotfl:

I dont know what you are talking about with officiating? As for Salary Cap, the Wings have had the best player development system in hockey for 20 years. Most of the money they spent pre-cap was for retaining their own players, who had earned it by being winners. mostly cynosure. the RedWings have a wonderful combo of free agency and player development. when the time ran out for them to spend ~$15-$20M on goalie, they fell back on zetterberg, datsyuk, etc. no organization has done a better job better job of developing cheap euro talent than the red wings. I think it starts with leadership. I think Lidstrom really gets those Euro players to play well in the Wings system. Lidstrom played with the likes of Yzerman, Larionov and Fetisov, 3 other great leaders. Zetterburg and Datsyuk are picking it up now. Guys like Franzen, Samuelsson, Kornwall, Filpula really respond and give a great effort. I also think that is a reason that Hossa wanted to play there. One thing that was said in the broadcast today that I agree with, is that the Wings best players are the hardest workers. That is something that has been a constant over the last 15 years. Is it just me or are the Redwings literally there for every rebound? I think thats a problem for us still and there one of the best in the league at that...They just looked much better than us up and down the ice They're really really good. We're good, but not on that level yet. We can't beat the Red Wings, but I would hope they realize that they can still beat pretty much anyone else and it would be nice if they took this season as far as they can go, and not let the Red Wings stick in their head and ruin other, more winnable, games. If we meet the Wings in the conference finals and get beat, I'll still consider this a very good season.

Exciting? They haven't done anything but get worse so far. What's so exciting about taking steps back? Maybe because he likes Fontenot / Bradley better than Fontenot / DeRosa. I don't consider that worse. Bradley's not a Cub yet. Right now it's DeRosa/Fonty vs. Miles/Fonty. That's not better.

Is this a joke? No seriously. Is this a joke?

That's where I'm at. I don't care if others call it "knee jerk." In the NBA, seems to me you win with superstars. Rose can be one, none of the others can. We need to get into a position to get another all-pro calibre piece to counterbalance Rose. I don't care if all the other players on this team are gone. If that's what it takes to get that 2nd piece, then so be it. After that, fill out the roster with riff raff. But get yourself in a position to compliment Rose or he's just going to be wasted. I'd sure hate to see Rose 3 years from now, still trying to be all things to all people because he doesn't have anyone else to help, getting frustrated and getting triple teamed and getting tired. Then finally demanding a trade. How bad would that suck? Better get some help in here, and get it pronto.

DeRosa just to free up salary for Bradley doesn't do much for me. But, I guess I'll wait for the final product.

Hey Banedon......Believe. It's ok, you're a Cubs fan. Tell yourself "we are getting Peavy." :wink: They built those bleacher walls out of brick for a reason :banghead: :banghead: :thumbsup:

...but it's just Levine again. we aren't going to fall into this trap again, right?