Soul

There's a tendency to try and quantify all of this with stats and whatever. I just think the Heisman is won and lost based on those few big pressure games where the player plays----unless he simply blows it against lesser opponents. Troy has had 2 this year and shined in both. Quinn had 1 and didn't look all that great, for whatever reason. Even if he plays lights-out against USC, they aren't #2 and it won't be that huge mega-game that the Texas and Michigan games were for Troy Smith. Oh, that's a perfectly logical argument-but ND has played the better defenses and a better schedule, and I'm just responding to the statement that Ohio State had better in each of those. BTW, Quinn wasn't all that bad for a player running for his life the entire Michigan game (2 INT's weren't his fault, only 1 was a bad decision or bad throw). I do understand though that his game was not nearly as good as Smith's games-but I do think Soccers argument that ND has had no offensive line pretty much all year and yet Quinn has done this has credence also. Remember that year when Woodson won the Heisman over Peyton? Peyton was the favorite to win it, but then Woodson was having this great year-----and in the biggest regular season game, he comes up big again. I think Peyton takes it if not for that final big game (I think it was OSU too). For better or for worse, that's the Heisman in a nutshell. Tennessee fans still burn up over that one. I know-I heard the complaining about that one just today from a Tennessee fan :D And of course the much better pro player, Peyton by light years.

There's a tendency to try and quantify all of this with stats and whatever. I just think the Heisman is won and lost based on those few big pressure games where the player plays----unless he simply blows it against lesser opponents. Troy has had 2 this year and shined in both. Quinn had 1 and didn't look all that great, for whatever reason. Even if he plays lights-out against USC, they aren't #2 and it won't be that huge mega-game that the Texas and Michigan games were for Troy Smith. Oh, that's a perfectly logical argument-but ND has played the better defenses and a better schedule, and I'm just responding to the statement that Ohio State had better in each of those. BTW, Quinn wasn't all that bad for a player running for his life the entire Michigan game (2 INT's weren't his fault, only 1 was a bad decision or bad throw). I do understand though that his game was not nearly as good as Smith's games-but I do think Soccers argument that ND has had no offensive line pretty much all year and yet Quinn has done this has credence also. Remember that year when Woodson won the Heisman over Peyton? Peyton was the favorite to win it, but then Woodson was having this great year-----and in the biggest regular season game, he comes up big again. I think Peyton takes it if not for that final big game (I think it was OSU too). For better or for worse, that's the Heisman in a nutshell. Tennessee fans still burn up over that one.

I'm going to make a point of avoiding Chevy next time I buy a car. Christ, enough is enough.

There's a tendency to try and quantify all of this with stats and whatever. I just think the Heisman is won and lost based on those few big pressure games where the player plays----unless he simply blows it against lesser opponents. Troy has had 2 this year and shined in both. Quinn had 1 and didn't look all that great, for whatever reason. Even if he plays lights-out against USC, they aren't #2 and it won't be that huge mega-game that the Texas and Michigan games were for Troy Smith.

I agree. Smith's pretty small, not all that tall, and not fast enough IMO to be a Vick/Young style QB in the NFL. It'll be interesting to see if he becomes a WR or something else. He could try the Seneca Wallace thing, which interestingly enough appears to be working out for the kid. But I definitely agree, Quinn's the more attractive pro prospect.

Cal would obviously need to hang on to the football to beat USC.

Before the OSU/UM game I agreed with you. Quinn's stats are still better. More yards, more TD's, same # of INT's and Smith doesn't have the benefit of a bunch of rushing yards and TD's like he did last year. Quinn's been the better QB this year. And I'm not exactly one to hand out compliments to ND or their players very often. It's not a stats race---never has been. Quinn had a prime shot to show he was the Heisman favorite against Michigan in his own building, and they got slaughtered. Quinn looked overmatched at times. Smith has faced down two #2 challengers and looked real good against both of them. Smith is the clear Heisman winner IMO. I doubt the voting will be particularly close. Smith had 2 good games and a bunch of eh/crap games. Quinn had one bad game and a bunch of solid/good games. Do you know how many games Smith has been held under 200 yards passing? 6. Quinn? 0. Want to talk about who is more important to his team? It's Quinn and it's not even close. Quinn has to play well because ND's defense isn't that good. OSU has one of the top defenses in the nation. Coming into today, Notre Dame's defense has allowed 67.5 more ypg than OSU. Offensively, OSU has a far better running game than ND and is averaging 65.5 more rushing ypg than ND. Ohio State has a better team than ND and Smith doesn't have to do as much to keep his team in the game. Quinn is a better player, has better stats, and is more important to his team than Quinn is. To me, that means the Heisman winner should be from South Bend. And, as with many of my Brady Quinn posts, and to annoy ndistops, I have one more thing to say. Quinn is going to look good in Silver and Black next year. We'll see when the voting comes down. I'm telling you it's not going to be close soccer. I realize that it's not going to be close and that Smith will win easily. But that doesn't make it right now does it? I still think it's right for Smith to win. I'm NOT an OSU fan, btw. Was rooting for Michigan today. It's all so subjective......but I just view Smith as being the more masterful, solid player this year. I'm probably biased by that ND/Michigan game, where it looked to me like Quinn was overmatched. Now that I saw Smith just rip them to shreds------I'd vote for Troy.

Voters are going to look at what Quinn looked like against Michigan, and what Troy looked like. And then they'll cast their vote for Troy, unless they are an ND alum. That's how I think it will go down.

Before the OSU/UM game I agreed with you. Quinn's stats are still better. More yards, more TD's, same # of INT's and Smith doesn't have the benefit of a bunch of rushing yards and TD's like he did last year. Quinn's been the better QB this year. And I'm not exactly one to hand out compliments to ND or their players very often. It's not a stats race---never has been. Quinn had a prime shot to show he was the Heisman favorite against Michigan in his own building, and they got slaughtered. Quinn looked overmatched at times. Smith has faced down two #2 challengers and looked real good against both of them. Smith is the clear Heisman winner IMO. I doubt the voting will be particularly close. Smith had 2 good games and a bunch of eh/crap games. Quinn had one bad game and a bunch of solid/good games. Do you know how many games Smith has been held under 200 yards passing? 6. Quinn? 0. Want to talk about who is more important to his team? It's Quinn and it's not even close. Quinn has to play well because ND's defense isn't that good. OSU has one of the top defenses in the nation. Coming into today, Notre Dame's defense has allowed 67.5 more ypg than OSU. Offensively, OSU has a far better running game than ND and is averaging 65.5 more rushing ypg than ND. Ohio State has a better team than ND and Smith doesn't have to do as much to keep his team in the game. Quinn is a better player, has better stats, and is more important to his team than Quinn is. To me, that means the Heisman winner should be from South Bend. And, as with many of my Brady Quinn posts, and to annoy ndistops, I have one more thing to say. Quinn is going to look good in Silver and Black next year. We'll see when the voting comes down. I'm telling you it's not going to be close soccer.

Safety Cal! It's a ballgame ToooooNITE!

Yeah, I would have a hard time disagreeing with that. Although Troy-----he just seems to have alot of different skills in one package, and despite the fact that he CAN run, he has seemed to master pocket passing pretty darn well. It's really his height that works against him, and I admit that's going to really hurt him in the pros.

Yeah, they can Chop Chop all they want, but I don't want to see a club that gets down by 17 to Cincy anywhere near the national championship game.

Before the OSU/UM game I agreed with you. Quinn's stats are still better. More yards, more TD's, same # of INT's and Smith doesn't have the benefit of a bunch of rushing yards and TD's like he did last year. Quinn's been the better QB this year. And I'm not exactly one to hand out compliments to ND or their players very often. It's not a stats race---never has been. Quinn had a prime shot to show he was the Heisman favorite against Michigan in his own building, and they got slaughtered. Quinn looked overmatched at times. Smith has faced down two #2 challengers and looked real good against both of them. Smith is the clear Heisman winner IMO. I doubt the voting will be particularly close.

Before the OSU/UM game I agreed with you. I suggest ND stop scheduling the annual 3-game swing against the academies. God love 'em (and I certainly do), but they aren't strong football programs and it takes the wind out of the sails when ND can't show what they've got against quality opponents late in the season. Plus Army is no way to prepare for USC. Come on now :wink:

Cincy up by 10 points now. I'm sorry, but if Rutgers has to come back against an unranked ballclub like Cincy, there just no way they should be put on the field with the likes of Ohio State. That would be a travesty, IMO. Undefeated be damned.

I think that's pretty darn shaky, but it might be as good as we can do because this market is starting to look downright scary and the pitching available outside of Zito just isn't looking all that great (I'm assuming Schmidt has ruled out the Cubs due to geography). At some point, I wonder if Jim & Lou will simply have to accept this is going to be a 2 year plan.

Why didn't I become a baseball player?

LA is a game we can win, but I don't think we've won in Denver in ages. We even struggled there in our dynasty days and when they were crap. If we can beat the Lakers, 76ers, and Knicks, I'll be fine with going 3-4 on this trip. If we lose that Lakers game, the floodgates open. I'm just hoping we don't get swept on the road trip at this point. We're getting beat by more & more each game, it seems.

That Arizona program is starting to turn the corner. Stoops is doing a good job in Tucson. For the second straight year, their recruiting class is going to rival that of USC, UCLA and Cal's. They're a program on the rise. Which is good, because I think the Pac 10 could really use another legit contending program. Briggs comes from Zona. He's got to be smiling right now :) Next year should be fun in Tuscon.

You've got a great coach, a building program, and a BCS game coming your way. I understand having high standards, but ND fans have nothing to be ashamed of.

I think Leftwich got a raw deal in Jacksonville, and I think if he does end up not playing another game in a Jaguars uniform, he'll have the opportunity to start elsewhere. He's no Joey Harrington, come on. You know, some people I was watching the Giants game with started complaining about Grossman...all I could think about was how much more confident I feel with Grossman at the helm than a Kyle Orton, Chad Hutchinson, Jonathon Quinn, etc. Some [expletive] media type person said something like: "Kyle Orton did what he was supposed to do, not lose games. Grossman can lose you games" God, I wish there was some emoticon to express my reaction to that. I'd probably take Joey Harrington over Leftwich. I think Leftwich still has a chance to resurrect his career, but it's going to be hard. Colts fans are hoping Garrard struggles big-time the next two weeks so they'll put Leftwich back in to face us. The thing with Leftwich is he's pretty immobile, and he's not very accurate with his throws. That makes it so he makes some good plays down the field, but he gives up many big plays to the defense in the form of sacks and turnovers. He doesn't make enough good plays to make up for the bad plays on a week to week basis. Leftwich also brings the ball down to his friggin' KNEES every time he throws. There's long windups, and then there's Leftwich. I'm not sure how many times he fumbles when trying to throw, but if I was coaching DLine against the Jags I'd have my guys grabbing for his arm every time. I wanted the Bears to take a shot at him when he was coming out. Right now, I'm glad we didn't.

That Arizona program is starting to turn the corner.

Even if they do, they got massacred by Michigan in South Bend. IMO ND should have no shot. No offense to ND fans, but Michigan is just a way, way better ballclub.

I am making a bold prediction right now. Ohio St will beat anyone they play by 3 tds, unless its Michigan. In some sort of sick way I hope they do play Rutgers. I dont know if the pass interference play was called correctly. I do know that the defender had his back turned and was slapping at Manningham's hands. If he by chance didnt hit one he was lucky because he sure was trying to interfere. I dont think the refereeing made any difference in the outcome of the game. I think that there was some not so great calls both ways but the difference in the game if you ask me is that Troy Smith played better than Henne. It wasnt that Henne played bad but Smith was Heismanesgue. You can just hand the Heisman to Smith now. It's not even going to be close. McFadden's a heck of a player----I'd put him second ahead of Quinn. But I'd be suprised if those two combined get the votes Smith will. He romped in two games against challenging #2 teams. That's the definition of Heisman Trophy winner.

The title game will likely come down to the voters-Michigan will almost certainly still be the top 1 loss team in the computers (with the possible exception of USC by the end of the season). Unless the voters push them too far down, they will probably have a re-match. My guess is that USC and possibly Florida have a chance to go, but it all depends on how far some people want to drop them in the polls. I don't view Florida as being in the same league as a team like Michigan or USC. But they do play in the SEC so if they beat Arkansas I think you're right, they have a shot. My prediction is that Arkansas absolutely romps them.