DivineBovine

Deng for Monta? http://www.contracostatimes.com/warriors/ci_18244337?nclick_check=1

Dallas is a great team. Nobody is denying that. It's just that Miami supposedly has the far and away best player in the NBA playing on a great team. I'm just making the argument that LeBron James is not a great scorer, and thus, is overrated. If LeBron and Dirk switched teams, who would be winning this series?

Fantasy stats IMO Yeah, I know. I used stats. How's this for supporting cast? Scotty Pippen in his second year, Horace Grant in his second year, BJ Armstrong, John Paxson, Will Perdue, Bill Cartwright, Charles Davis, Jack Haley, Ed Nealy, Jeff Sanders, Clifford Lett, Craig Hodges

Of course. Obviously the lack of championship is going to knock him down a peg, but it's not like he's be in terrible company never having won a title. Ewing, Barkley, Wilkins, Iverson, Baylor, Maravich, Miller, Stockton, Malone...who is really going to knock any of these guys as not being some of the very greatest of all time? That'd be pretty terrible company for Lebron all things considered. I think LeBron will probably get one. But Ewing and Barkley never had a supporting cast that LeBron has right now. Rightly or wrongly, anything short of multiple (at least 2-3) championships will mean failure for LeBron in the eyes of many.

So what was Jordan's excuse? The last year before the Bulls first championship, he averaged 37/7/7 with 3 steals in the playoffs. The 1990 Bulls are no comparison to the 2011 Heat in terms of supporting cast. And don't bring up the fact that BJ Armstrong started an All-Star game.

Statistical analysis is far more applicable to baseball than any other sport.

The Mavs are in it because they're a good team lead by an amazing player. Teams were "in it" against Jordan, too, so I'm not exactly sure why the Mavs making it a series would be such damning evidence against LeBron's ability. My point is that a player that can be considered the best by far in basketball should win this series with that supporting cast. If the Heat win and LeBron dominates game 6 and 7, then I rescind some but not all of my comments. This is an asinine approach. So if they lose it this year but then win it next year in commanding fashion with LeBron kicking ass everything changes? Really? It comes down to that small a sample size with you? Don't worry. I doubt it happens.

Because of his per game averages of 27.7 (regular season and 28.2 (playoffs)??? While having similar TS% and eFG as St. Michael? Gasp...you are comparing LeBron James to Michael in terms of scoring?! Blasphemy! Yes, LeBron puts up gaudy stats. We've all seen them. He's fantasy basketball king. But in real basketball, King James is playing with another top 5 player, a top 20 player, and a pretty damn good supporting cast. And he is losing in the finals while having scored 2 pathetic points in the fourth quarter the last 2 games when his team needed points the most. You would've thought he'd have won something by now playing his entire career with such talent while putting up those stats. There's always an excuse for LeBron not winning, because he puts up those stats. The stats people will always assume that its not his fault. This might have worked with Cleveland, but it's over now. No more excuses like that. Of course, I'm sure LeBron supporters will continue to find blame in the supporting cast because the stats say he's the best ever. Since its been tough to blame Wade, Bosh, Miller, Chalmers and Bibby lately, then maybe they'll blame Ilgauskas and Howard the finals loss. By the way, I have nothing against math. I use statistics a lot in what I do for a living. But I feel that stats can be misleading and are overused.

The Mavs are in it because they're a good team lead by an amazing player. Teams were "in it" against Jordan, too, so I'm not exactly sure why the Mavs making it a series would be such damning evidence against LeBron's ability. My point is that a player that can be considered the best by far in basketball should win this series with that supporting cast. If the Heat win and LeBron dominates game 6 and 7, then I rescind some but not all of my comments.

Because of his per game averages of 27.7 (regular season and 28.2 (playoffs)??? While having similar TS% and eFG as St. Michael? Gasp...you are comparing LeBron James to Michael in terms of scoring?! Blasphemy! Yes, LeBron puts up gaudy stats. We've all seen them. He's fantasy basketball king. But in real basketball, King James is playing with another top 5 player, a top 20 player, and a pretty damn good supporting cast. And he is losing in the finals while having scored 2 pathetic points in the fourth quarter the last 2 games when his team needed points the most.

The best player in the NBA should probably be able to do more than score 2 total points in the 4th quarter of back to back Finals games. Just sayin'. :hello: OK, I'll say something that people are going to hate: I don't think all points are created equal. A guy who can take the ball and score when his team absolutely needs a basket is priceless in basketball. A score in the playoffs against a tough defense who knows you're going to get the ball is absolutely huge (see Dirk). This is not the same as a fast break dunk in the beginning of the game. Tough basketball games always seem to come down to the last 5 minutes. Just because a guy can pile on stats before then doesn't mean as much as scoring when it counts. The Heat may well win the series. But if LeBron is such a stud, why are the Mavs even in it. I don't get it. He's playing with Wade and Bosh. And I hope we've all gotten over calling Anthony, Miller, Haslem, Bibby total pieces of garbage scrubs.

Yes, you sound like you've never watched LeBron or Wade play basketball before. Come on dude. You can do better than that. LeBron gets to the basket with straight line speed and power. Wade, MJ, Kobe use elusiveness. It's very different. One doesn't work as well in a half court offense against a good defense. Especially if you don't have a great shot. Why do LeBron supporters so adamantly claim that he's such a great scorer? Can't they just accept the fact that he's damn good at everything else?

LeBron is amazing at layups in transition, or against weak defense. But if you want a layup to be created in a half court offense, I take Wade over LeBron all day long. It's embarassing how often 6'8" of pure muscle and speed flails and tries to just draw a foul on a drive without even trying to make the shot. Come on guys. Nobody else sees this? Am I sounding so absurd?

Miami is getting a taste of their own medicine. The Dallas role players keep draining jumpers.

You act surprised. This is the third straight year people are questioning if he's "the man" or not. So doesn't that make it a semi-legit question to ask then? If you want to say LeBron hasn't had a great finals, that's a pretty self-evident fact. But all the larger connotations being drawn(Wade at his best is better! he can't carry a team offensively!) are so laughably wrong I can barely read them with a straight face. Basically, it's the same dumb nonsense that sports media tries all the time, but because everyone hates LeBron and the Heat, they go along with it. What is so laughably wrong? I don't see why so many people think this is ridiculous. What is his go-to shot? A fast break dunk? An alley oop? Prayer shots that he jacks over someone? He has had his games when everything goes in, but so has Jamal Crawford. He cannot do it consistently. Stats are misleading when it comes to LeBron. He gets easy baskets based on sheer athleticism. It's the tough ones that he just can't get consistently. Anyone who thinks he is a great scorer and can be mentioned with MJ, Kobe, Dirk or Wade in that category is smoking crack, IMO.

Anyone who watched any basketball the past 5 years has seen a lot of LeBron before the Heat.

I'll bite on Monta Ellis. I like him a lot. He is an amazing scorer who can create his own shot. That's exactly what they need. Way better than Gordon or Crawford. He might be a bad defender, but who knows what Thibs can do for him. He's athletic enough. I'd be interested.

What? No. Wade [expletive] all over the floor in the Bulls series, and now Bulls fans are all too eager to declare him the leader of Miami because of a couple games in the finals. The Heat might not have made it past Boston without LBJ. God only knows what people would be saying if Lebron had Wade's game but lost the final possession in the same manner. LEBRON CAN'T CLOSE OUT, CHOKES WHEN IT MATTERS MICHAEL JORDAN LET ME SUCK YOUR DICK Hey, I admit I'm a LeBron basher. It's fun. I admit he's a great player. The best physical tools of any player that ever played. I'm not saying he's worse than Wade. I said Wade at his best. I'll grant LeBron is a lot of things. He has the best physicial tools of any player in history, he can pass really well, he plays good defense, is a great finisher, and is a great player. He just isn't a great scorer. He cannot will the ball in the basket and carry a team's offense. He is not in MJ, Kobe, Dirk, or Wade's league when it comes to this. I personally think this ability is the most important in basketball, and underrated by statisticians.

Damn. LeBron may be a better player because of consistency. But Wade at his best is better than LeBron as his best. There's no way he can be considered the best in the world if he might not be the best on his own team. Wade has carried the Heat in the finals.

I think the second half of the Tribune ownership did some real things. The biggest mistakes they made was not hiring the right baseball people. But in the early 90's they went out and got a hot shot young exec in Andy MacPhail to run things and make a commitment to building through the minor league system. They also spent more and more every year on payroll, giving unprecedented resources to the team. They also laid the groundwork for the first real upgrades to Wrigley Field and got them done. I agree. A good owner will... a) hire the right people; b) open the checkbook; and c) stay the heck out of the way. The Trib definitely did b) and c), and tried to do a). In the end, MacPhail's small-market tendencies just didn't work here. Ricketts and co have yet to establish a), b), or c). But they haven't given us a reason to believe they'll fail on any of these, either. No way. I'll give you the Trib did C). They did not do a). And they definitely did not do b). They did b) only in the last few years prior to the sale. I don't count that. They were a corporation solely in it for the money. Period. I'll hold my criticism of the Ricketts, because they were dealt a horrible hand. Only time will tell. I certainly don't expect them to do anything drastic with this losing team right now, because it would be dumb. I'm not sure what the critics really want at this point. The team sucks right now, no matter who is running things or what they do in the short term. And there are many ways to flush money and your future down the toilet if you try to do something drastic.

1. True. Hilarious. Almost like they were trying to make up for the no backcourt violation on the Chalmers 3 the rest of the game. 2. 100% true. I've been saying this the entire thread, and the Bulls thread. The Heat win with defense and a ton of their offense comes from fast breaks or FT's. In the half-court, they are pedestrian. Maybe its because they lack a post player. It's certainly not Wade's fault. But this is why I've been saying LeBron is overrated. He can pass, play defense, finish on the fast break. But his ability to score in the half court, arguably the most important trait a player can have, is far from worthy of being one of the best players ever. Imagine if that guy had a clue in the post. (And no, those prayers he heaved up against the Bulls don't count. Lucky bastard) It would be ridiculous. 3. I think Miami must deserve some credit. The Bulls couldn't hit any open shots either. Either Miami has been getting lucky all playoffs with other teams missing shots, or their defense has something to do with it. Maybe its a combination. Still, it seems as if Miami is consistently hitting jumpers and the other teams are just missing. Miami has been living off jump shots. If its not a fast break, its usually a jumper. And its not just the big 3. It's Bibby, Miller, Chalmers. Because we've already established that their half court offense sucks. Go Mavs. Still have a shot. But the Heat are good frontrunners.

The Heat are loose ball fouling every single rebound, and its getting called! Were they doing this last series??!!

I can't believe what I'm seeing. The Heat aren't getting their usual calls. Double dribble on LeBron? Wow.

We are seeing what separates the Mavs from the Bulls. The Mavs can make up a 15 point lead against the Heat pretty easily. For the Bulls, a 10 point lead is insurmountable.

They should call technicals and fine after the fact. It's one thing to flop after contact. But these guys are blatantly flopping after no contact. It would definitely help clean up the game. It's becoming worse than soccer.