Outshined_One

It's official, the Houston Texans select... Mario Williams?! Giddyup! This is going to be fun.

really? the only time I ever saw that treatment was after beating Michigan State in Japan to clinch the Rose Bowl. have a great time. do a second story beer bong for me. In the four years I've been here, each Halloween weekend on Saturday has ended with tear gas, pepper spray, and CNN on-site.

Que?

first, don't bring up Mifflin Street Block Party when I've been in Illinois pining for a trip to Madison all spring second, I've had some good times at rainy Mifflin Street Block Parties. how are the cops these days? when I was in Madison, it went from great party all over the place to stay withing the sidewalks to don't come off the porches to a riot seen on CNN to don't even be on the porches. Oh yeah, the rain won't stop me from going and getting absolutely soaked. I have friends with houses on those two blocks, so, if worst comes to worst, I can just hang out indoors and drink all day. The cops are actually pretty chill at Mifflin. Most of the time, people get photo ops with them (including one of my friends, who convinced a cop to handcuff him and pretend to beat him with a nightstick). We sold two burgers to two cops a couple of years ago while BBQing. Usually they keep alcohol-holding or intoxicated people on their front lawns, but once the crowds get too big, they let those people out onto the street. They'll arrest people who do stupid things or act belligerent, but otherwise are pretty nice. Halloween, on the other hand, is another matter altogether. Let's just say that I may well have developed an immunity to pepper spray and tear gas thanks to their methods of crowd control.

I really hope those showers hold off for the weekend. The Mifflin Street block party is tomorrow and it would absolutely suck if it were pouring. :(

Enlighten me. The desipiots know more than I do about the incident since it gets brought up constantly. My recollection of details are sketchy, but... Apparently, Edgar Renteria was in the shower in the clubhouse when he slipped and fell, knocking himself out. Apparently Jim Edmonds came into the shower, saw Renteria lying there, then picked him up and carried him out of the shower, cradled in his arms. The strange part about it is...well, there've been whispers that Jimmy may have spent some quality time in there with Renteria while Renteria was unconscious. The rumor was that Renteria wanted to get the holy hell out of St. Louis after that incident and was the primary reason he did not return in the offseason. Some if it is speculation and some of it quite malicious, but, well, you asked for it. There's also the accusation that he molests collies, but that's likely a joke from Caddyshack more than anything else.

OH....goony, you HAD to go there, didn't you? There's a Jim Edmonds joke in here somewhere... Stupid question... Is Edmunds really gay? There have been rumors and speculation (namely the Edgar Renteria shower incident that earned him the nickname of "Lassie"), but no one publically knows. It's kinda like Derek Jeter and A-Rod.

Leave it to ESPN to find a way to get Derek Jeter involved in this article. Also, the sheer amount of omitted information on some statistics (ZOMG FIRST ROUND QBS WILL NEVAR EVAR PAN OUT!!!111) kinda drives me nuts. I know this is supposed to be in good fun. I laughed at some of it. But come on.

I didn't realize this until now. Young got ejected after posting the first out of the game. :shock:

Just as a point of fact, did Young turn around and throw the bat at the ump, or did he fling it behind his back or side?

If you were to remove the umpire thing from the equation, I'd say this incident is still worse than the Alcantra thing. The catcher was wearing protective gear which covered his chest and face. The umpire removed his face mask in order to toss Young, thereby allowing for a greater risk for potential face/head injuries. A kick to the face versus a bat to the face moving at a decent clip could cause comparable injuries, however. That said, with the umpire thing in the equation, this becomes a much bigger issue. All sports vociferously protect their officials. Pete Rose was suspended for 30 days because he got into a shoving match with an umpire, which I think is a better indicator of the way baseball is going to go with this issue than the Alomar or Everett incidents.

Correct, but look back at the definition of "serious bodily injury".

Well, it doesn't look like he was hurt. But it just depends on whether he is pissed off enough. Or greedy enough. Also, quick show of hands. For those of you who know the minor league systems around baseball, how many of you were surprised that Delmon Young did this and not Elijah Dukes? *Raises hand*

That requires serious bodily injury. Unless the ump had his arm broken or something, I don't think he'll get charged with it. Also, Tree, I am not arguing for a lifetime ban. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm expecting between 50-100 games in terms of a suspension, especially considering the media is picking up on it and also considering Young won't have the MLBPA protecting him.

The game was in Pawtucket. I'm going to go digging for some criminal codes...

For the purposes of assaulting someone, a bat is a deadly weapon. So is your leg by the way. And, as Ricky Manning taught us in California, your shoe can constitute a deadly weapon.

And yes, a bat is considered a deadly weapon. Although, in all fairness, different states can have different definitions of various laws. Some follow the Model Penal Code to the letter, others look to different sources. I know the Florida Criminal Code has provisions in it regarding aggravated assault and battery of sports officials/umpires/refs. Was this played in Pawtucket or Durham?

Depends on said player's past performances. If the guy is historically a second half player, then it'd be harder to judge early in the season. If the guy is a career .300/.380/.450 player and he's hitting .220/.240/.330 and he's putting up those numbers around the All Star Break, then it probably would be time to write him off. However, if he has an established history of being mediocre, then I'd say somewhere around the end of May would be reasonable.

Perhaps. If someone really wanted to go for Delmon's blood they could charge him with aggravated assault, which usually has a max of twenty years. Aggravated assault? He flipped a bat at him! Not only that, but it hit the dude square in a chest protector and he didn't even flinch. The overreaction to this is getting out of hand. There were probably plenty of people saying the same things about lawsuits and permanent bans when Alomar and Everett made their stupid decisions, and we'll probably see something similar here in terms of punishment, and that's fair. He's talking about the potential for it. The umpire would definitely have a case. The law doesn't tend to make special exceptions for sporting events with regards to these kinds of activities (although athletes tend to get preferential treatment, which is another matter altogether). If two guys on the street got into a heated argument, then one of the guys chucked a bat and hit the other guy with it, he could very well be charged with assault with a deadly weapon or aggravated assault. That said, if there are criminal charges, I predict Young ends up getting probation and community service. A lawsuit, however, is another matter altogether. Considering that there is video tape of the incident and that Young is on record as saying that he intended to hit the umpire with the bat, there could be interesting penalties awaiting Mr. Young for his actions.

:-s

Correct, and the same applies in the common definition. I could intend to run 20 miles tomorrow, but I know there's a really, really good chance that I will not reach that mark. However, that still won't stop me from intending to try and do it (and coming up short after about two miles). I could order an extra large pizza, intending to eat the entire thing, even though there's almost no chance I could do it in one sitting. That doesn't stop me from my intentions. I end up eating all but two slices because I'm too full. Again, I'm seeing a disconnect here.

Actually, the law is quite relevant given the fact that contracts basically allow baseball to exist. It's why labor lawyers represent the Player's Association. It's why almost all sports agents have law degrees. I'm sure there's plenty of language in the CBA and various other codes in baseball that has to do with actions like these, accidents, and intent. That's how punishments are decided upon and meted out. Baseball has a legal governing structure; it's reasonable to bring this "jargon" into the equation. you really think they're going to use the legal definition of intent when determining how long to suspend him? and that they'll ignore the common definition of intent? I fail to see how the legal definition and common definition of intent are different. I'd like to see how you separate the two.

Actually, the law is quite relevant given the fact that contracts basically allow baseball to exist. It's why labor lawyers represent the Player's Association. It's why almost all sports agents have law degrees. I'm sure there's plenty of language in the CBA and various other codes in baseball that has to do with actions like these, accidents, and intent. That's how punishments are decided upon and meted out. Baseball has a legal governing structure; it's reasonable to bring this "jargon" into the equation.

Here's something to think about regarding intent. Let's say, for the purposes of argument, that you legally own a firearm. One day, you go out to an empty field, check the nearby area for people, find no one, set up some targets on a fence, and then shoot at the targets with your gun. However, one of your bullets misses the target, goes through the field, and strikes some one in the chest, killing them. You could not see or hear the person from your vantage point and had absolutely no intent of hurting that person. It was an accident. That's one example. Here's another. Instead of going to an empty field, you walk up to some train tracks and wait for a train. When the train is speeding by you, you open fire on it, not intending to hit anyone. However, one of your bullets hits a man and kills him, even though you did not intend for it to happen. All you intended to do was just shoot at the train for the heck of it, maybe because you were bored. Yet, you killed a man because of it. Should you receive the same penalties in the second example as in the first example? Here's another, which is even more extreme. You think you're getting really good at the whole target practice thing and decide to take your act to the mall. You find a large crowd of people and open fire on them, intending to miss all of them. You open fire on these people and kill a man in the process. You never intended to hit him, quite the opposite. The man simply had the bad luck of being in front of one of your bullets. Should you receive the same penalties for this act as the others? Even if Young had no intent of hurting the umpire, oftentimes that won't mean a thing if reckless and potentially dangerous (or even lethal) behavior is involved. A baseball bat is a weapon that could either seriously maim or even kill a person. No matter what you think of his intent, he threw the bat in the umpire's general direction. If he didn't intend to hit the ump, it seemed as if he intended for the bat to get really close to him. Considering that people move quite a bit, the umpire could well have walked or even turned into the bat as it was buzzing by him. Delmon should have known that. If he didn't, he's a petulant fool.

The key difference is that a minor league player doesn't have the PA to protect him. This is true. Typically, they can knock suspensions down by a few games and make seemingly stiff penalties a bit less harsh. Young doesn't have that kind of protection, which means he might have to serve his suspension in full. Does anyone know if his suspension would count for both minor and major league games?