Couple of things. The last one of you SoSH's who came by earlier in the thread said the same stuff about using Guillen as a basis for compensation, and this is faulty logic for a couple of reasons (and I hope you address them as the other guy continually ignored them): 1) Theo is being offered a promotion. This isn't manager in Chicago becomes manager in Miami, it is VP of baseball ops/GM becoming President of baseball operations and reporting to only the owner. It's a promotion and a raise, and if you want to talk about precedent, there is plenty of precedent out there of front office guys moving to other organizations for a promotion and compensation is never discussed. 2) The are multiple sources that say that the return that the Sox got for Ozzie was due to alleged tampering by the Marlins for over a year. If you recall there were rumors about this move last season as well. Also, there were rumors of Ozzie signing a 4 year contract with Miami at the same exact time Guillen was in Reinsdorf's office "asking for an extension" aka getting out of his contract so he could go to Florida. There was no permission granted and no known interview for the position. This was worked out behind the scenes, and because of this the Marlins felt obligated to compensate the Sox. I personally don't think that Theo can come back to the Red Sox and co-exist at this point. I am not sure that the relationship is as frayed as its suggested, but the facts are that Epstein has chosen to join the Cubs over the Red Sox. He would rather work some place else. Also, Theo has 1 year left on his contract and reports are out there that Theo already told the Red Sox before the Cubs situation came up that he would be leaving Boston after his contract is up. Maybe it was a negotiating ploy by Theo, who knows. But all the signs point to a reunion between the Red Sox and Theo being short lived at best. Do the Red Sox really want to pay $7 million for a GM that won't be there after this year. Wouldn't the Red Sox rather move on and let the new GM take over with his plan and vision instead of waiting to do it a year from now? That brings me to another point, that there are reports that the Red Sox have already informed Cherington that he will be the new GM. If Theo comes back for this year, Cherington will become a popular candidate to interview for other GM positions, namely Baltimore or Anaheim. Given that he would be interviewing for a promotion, I doubt the Red Sox will stand in his way. I think they'd owe it to him after giving him the GM role twice only to take it back from him. So you risk losing Theo AND Cherington within a year. It's a possibility that with Theo saying he won't be back that Cherington will sit patiently and wait for another season, but its also possible that he wants to make his next career move sooner rather than later, and if that's the case he's gone this offseason most likely. So, on one side you gain $7 million, keep Cherington and get a mid level prospect from the Cubs. On the other you lose $7 million, possibly lose Cherington and get no compensation for Theo. Is that worth taking a hard stance based on principle? I don't mind if the only thing we give up is McNutt and cash, that is fine. But I trust Ricketts' judgement in the matter, and the fact is, we have no idea what the Red Sox are really asking. If Kraplan is right about the Red Sox offer still being insane, its much more than McNutt and cash. First to get something out of the way, the Sox would still have to allow Cherrington to interview with another team, as anyone under contract has to get permission for. The chances of them doing this would be remote as I had mentioned before hes going to be the Sox GM, regardless. The Guillen comparison is actually I think spot on, because of two issues. 1)This is a "promotion" but its not...Theo will still be doing the same job duties as he has since 2006. This was taken care of when Lucchino was moved over to more of the business side of the house, and Theo was given virtual control over the Baseball side of the house. 2)Teams control their employees regardless of if it will be a promotion or not. I used an example in my post about Dan Jennings and Al Aliva as examples, they can absolutely block someone from taking a job elsewhere. Now the Red Sox usually do not do this, however since Epstein is running the department (Baseball Ops) they view this move as a lateral one, this is why they asked for compensation. If they laid this out for the Cubbies on the front end then this is absolutely valid, once again none of us really know what either team is asking for. In fact here's the time line -Heyman reports Sox prefer cash -Kaplan comes out and says the Sox want prospects ...now after a bunch of back and forth we're at this point. I wouldn't rule out Larry attempting to get every last dime out of the Cubbies, and if you are responsible for the overall business aspects of running a team, why wouldn't you? If you were the Sox and didn't at least ask for Garza then what is that saying to your fan base? You never know until you ask, as with everything in life. As I mentioned before the Sox would usually not stand in the way of a promotion, however like with Chris Antonelli in Cleveland he turned down loads of interviews since he knew that Shapiro would be moving up and he would be next in line. Cherrington knows that hes next in line, and if Epstein stays...hell they make him the Co-CEO and he doesn't have to deal with the day to day GM duties...hes Mark Shapiro in this scenario pretty much. -I'm not sure about the Marlins "tampering" with Ozzie, however the fact that they were talking names like Mike Stanton last year tells me that this is probably BS, again I could be wrong but usually when tampering is involved, Selig gets involved (chuckle) or the offending team gives up compensation, however since this has been going on for 2 years now I would believe that its a trade...pure and simple. -If you throw out Ozzie you still have...Chuck Tanner for an all star, Lou Piniella for a starting CF, and Billy Beane for a 3-5 prospect in the Sox system (Youkilis or someone else depending on who you actually believe)...so I would say the Ozzie comparison would actually strengthen the argument for the Cubs faithful as opposed to the other 3. Someone who runs baseball operations and will bring a staff such as Byrnes and others with him (they'll let him bring 1 or 2 people, probably Baird too) is much more valuable than what a manager can bring to the table, as that person is responsible for the health of the entire system, the manager effects the major league product. The GM is the one who can put people into spots in the minors and develop the entire system from the ground up. Much more valuable, and the impact shows on the field. Hope I answered your questions... First of don't ever call them the Cubbies. Most Cubs fans hate that. The Sox and Marlins were talking about Stanton last year when Ozzie still had 2 years left on his deal and the Sox had no reason to let him go. The alleged tampering was obviously not something that was public knowledge at the time, and the compensation was offered to ignore any instances of tampering and so that the Sox did not look further into it. The fact that there were reports of Ozzie getting a 4 year deal from the marlins circulating at the exact same time Ozzie was meeting to discuss his status tells me that there was tampering. In all of those other examples you mention (including Ozzie), you are talking about managers leaving to become managers. Regardless of what Theo's roles are compared to Boston, this is a promotion that comes with a better title, less people to report to and challenge his decisions, and oh yeah a hefty pay raise. There is no precedent for this situation, so the Sox and Cubs are essentially setting the market for this, despite the fact that the Cubs have already "given" the Red Sox 3.5 million to pay for the contract temination or whatever it is that the Red Sox would have to pay next year. It can be argued that the Cubs shouldn't have to give Boston any other compensation, but the Cubs none the less have agreed to compensate the Red Sox further. I understand that the Red Sox can say no to teams asking about Cherington, but you are not really addressing my points. First of all, Henry went on the radio 10 days ago and said it is their position that they do not stand in the way of teams interviewing their employees when a promotion is on the table. It stands to reason that Cherington would not be exempt from that as well regardless of the state the Sox are in, assuming they are not giving him the GM position because Theo comes back. You mention examples of other teams but the only thing we "know" about the Red Sox stance is what Henry said on the radio the other day. If Theo comes back, you are talking about a guy who twice has been given the GM role and had it taken away from him shortly after. You cannot presume to know how he feels about that or whether he is willing to wait another year to have a shot at the GM position. It's not unreasonable to say that he could very well pursue the same position in another organization this offseason.
