don_kessinger_was_good

No. It's beginning to look like Dusty's pet will start at 2B after all. And bat second. I'm not ready to admit that yet. Hendry DID finally dump Gremlin after all. Maybe there is hope.

Or he trades them to the newly secondbaseless rangers for mench Rangers don't need a 2B. Ian Kinsler is ready, they'll simply move Young to 2B. And they'll be better overall for it. Wilkerson and Sledge means no more Sarge Lite, no more Nix. Outstanding move for Texas.

Abreu + Utley wouldn't do it for you? :D Abreu, Utley, and Rollins, for Prior and Walker? I'm still probably wouldn't do it. That deal I would do yesterday. Ditto. I could care less about Rollins, but Utley is the bomb.

I think Milwaukee blew this one, they should have been able to do better for Overbay than this, IMO. Question: Hall can play SS, can't he? If so, should the Cubs be interested? I assume Hillebrand gets 3B and JJ Hardy gets SS.

So with Tampa demanding a king's ransom for Lugo (typical Tampa), and Soriano no longer around to tempt Hendry, it's beginning to look more like Walker could be the 2B after all, no?

Finally, something EVERYONE can agree on. In your Funk & Wagnall's, next to "Addition by subtraction," you can file this one. Yes!!

I agree with you re: Wilkerson. He's a good ballplayer but I'll take Pierre the sure thing over all-or-nothing Wilkerson. I wasn't aware of Welly for Bigbie rumors, but why we haven't jumped all over that deal is beyond me. I can't remember now if it was Rotoworld or the rumors site, but I definitely recall seeing Welly for Bigbie mentioned. And yes, I think Bigbie would be a fine OF bench addition, and no, I do not think he would steal playing time from Murton.

Besides reminding me of the all-too-brief "Joe Camel" Era (aka Enrique Wilson)....that picture of Wilson Phillips. Is the redhead on the left the one that was once extremely obese? My goodness....

I just don't get the fawning over Wilkerson, I really don't. He can take a BB--wow, so could Mark Bellhorn, and I don't want HIM back. There's no evidence that Wilkerson is truly available, either, so in my book the discussion is moot. I pine for Abreu, if only Hendry could pull the big trade. It would solve all the Cubs' lineup problems in one fell swoop. Absent that, I think the Floyd murmurs make the most sense, he's closer to what the Cubs need in corner OF, he is apparently available? And he's not terribly expensive. I liked the Bradley option a lot more for CF, for RF? Not as much. What happened to the Wellemeyer for Bigbie rumors? I like Bigbie as a bench outfielder, we need one more to go with Mabry.

I had no idea San Diego was willing to trade Loretta. We could have used him. Loretta > Walker, and he's certainly better than Neifi or Hairston. Barrett and a prospect for Loretta and Klesko, with San Diego sending some cash, would have been a nice trade.

What if you got Bradley, and Floyd, and Mench? A LF platoon of Murton and Floyd, a RF platoon of Bradley and Mench, would be wicked. And the bench would be strong each and every day. Texas seems to like Patterson for some reason, so Patterson + Novoa for Mench? Walker for Bradley and Wuertz for Floyd as part of the earlier three-team scenario (Boston needs more middle relievers)?

OHMY GAWD, how could they trade Dewon Brazelton?? He was Tampa's #1 prospect, you can't trade a guy like that!! He was at the top of BA's prospect list, that is the bible, they're never wrong. Tampa is stupid and overpaid. :roll: if youre going to be insane, at least be insane in one thread, instead of letting this garbage spill over into other places it doesnt belong. I see that sarcasm escapes you.

Well, SOMEONE has to play RF. If all it takes is one prospect not named Guzman, Pie or Pawelek to bring in Cliff Floyd, I'm all for it. Floyd is signed for just this coming year, so it's not a long-term committment. He's no all-star, but he's better than Burnitz and Huff, so that's something.

OHMY GAWD, how could they trade Dewon Brazelton?? He was Tampa's #1 prospect, you can't trade a guy like that!! He was at the top of BA's prospect list, that is the bible, they're never wrong. Tampa is stupid and overpaid. :roll:

I don't see why Texas wouldn't be willing to send back some money to grease the skids and get a trade done. They've shown a willingness to do it before on multiple occasions. I like Soriano a lot more at $6 to $7MM than I do at 10. If he hits 6 in the order, he could be a real asset.

What I don't get is that some have pointed to Pierre's 2005 and argued he stinks, and that's a fair argument. But it's equally fair to point out what he did in 2001, 2003 and 2004, and if his performance in those years as a leadoff man doesn't get one excited, then I'm at a loss to see what leadoff man WOULD get one excited. Yes, Pierre has no SLG at all, this is true. But he's batting leadoff, not 3rd, or 5th, or 6th. OTOH-- 1. Did he get on base in those three years? Yes. 2. Once on base, does he make things happen? Yes. 3. Does he score a lot of runs? Yes. 4. Does he put the ball in play? Yes (one of the hardest guys in baseball to strike out). 5. Does he make the opposing pitcher work? Yes, the guy is a menace at fouling off pitches. I don't have his pitches seen/AB handy, hopefully someone else does. 6. Does he have good range in CF? Yes, in fact, excellent. 7. Does he have a good arm? No. This is his weak spot. You can run home on Pierre, and to a lesser extent, 3B. His problem is a weak arm, not an inaccurate arm. 8. Does he have the "right attitude"? Yes, recent stories seem to suggest he's a tireless worker, a-la Tony Gwynn. Very old school. 9. Is he grossly overpaid? Not really, he'll likely get a little under $5MM in arbitration. 10. Does he block uber-prospect Felix Pie? No, Pierre is a free agent for 2007. What's not to like here?

Jim Hendry sold high for once with some of our non-top prospects. And you choose to complain about it. Perhaps we should have held on to Pinto longer, and watch ALL of his value disappear like Juan Cruz, Ruben Quevedo, Jason Dubois and Richard Lewis before him. From where I stand, Hendry solved one of his issues with the MAJOR LEAGUE club and didn't need to use any of his top prospects or major league capable talent to get it done. Looks like he still has Angel Guzman, Rich Hill, Felix Pie, Eric Patterson, Mark Pawelek, Ryan Harvey, Carlos Marmol, Sean Gallagher, Sean Marshall, and Brian Dopirak in-house. Gee, that's pretty much the Cubs top prospect list right there. How about trading chips Corey Patterson, Todd Walker, Roberto Novoa, Todd Wellemeyer, Jerome Williams, Jerry Hairston? Yep, still have all of them as well. A TRUE quality prospect rips through the minors with rare hiccups. You keep waiting on and hoarding the marginal prospects, hoping they'll suddenly blossom into a big league all-star, well guess what--it almost never happens. They have a nice year at a mid-level like AA, terrific: use them as trade currency. Because the wait-and-see approach sure has worked wonders for us over the years. :roll: Again, I like the trade, I'd like it more if it we get a prospect coming back from Florida as at least one report has it, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over these three minor leaguers leaving the organization. Half the fans criticize the Cubs for never extracting value out of these minor leaguers, Hendry finally gets off the pot and does so, and others start carping about it. Can't have it both ways.

Aw, c'mon Mush--Fez is a total zero, and Nolasco and Pinto only look good because they pitched well while REPEATING AA. That's a big leap to get from AA success to useful major leaguer, as their failure in AAA in 2004 attests. None of these guys are anything other than marginal prospects. So, good trade! When the situation is dire, you need to overpay, OK, but what's done is done. We finally have a leadoff man. You are right--if Pierre performs in 2006 as he did in either 2001, 2003, or 2004, Cub fans are going to be very VERY happy. Ignorant... BA ranked them 17th and 18th best prospects respectively in the southern league, which was loaded this year. Pinto and Nolasco just happened to be #2 and #3 in the league in ERA (2.71 and 2.89), both averaging a K/IP, and 1.22 WHIPs. And although they are both repeating after failed attempts in AAA, they are both age appropriate. Also on that BA ranking was Murton (12), Jenks (13), Broxton (14), and Hill (15). Marginal, my left foot. Well, if Don Kessinger was good then I guess in that bizarro world then Pinto and Nolasco could be marginal prospects. ;) You're an ass, too. Try attacking the argument, not the poster, is that too tough for you?

Aw, c'mon Mush--Fez is a total zero, and Nolasco and Pinto only look good because they pitched well while REPEATING AA. That's a big leap to get from AA success to useful major leaguer, as their failure in AAA in 2004 attests. None of these guys are anything other than marginal prospects. So, good trade! When the situation is dire, you need to overpay, OK, but what's done is done. We finally have a leadoff man. You are right--if Pierre performs in 2006 as he did in either 2001, 2003, or 2004, Cub fans are going to be very VERY happy. Ignorant... BA ranked them 17th and 18th best prospects respectively in the southern league, which was loaded this year. Pinto and Nolasco just happened to be #2 and #3 in the league in ERA (2.71 and 2.89), both averaging a K/IP, and 1.22 WHIPs. And although they are both repeating after failed attempts in AAA, they are both age appropriate. Also on that BA ranking was Murton (12), Jenks (13), Broxton (14), and Hill (15). Marginal, my left foot. First off, why don't you stick to criticizing arguments instead of name-calling like "ignorant"; no one (namely, me) said anything to you directly. I think you're a smart-ass and someone that is impressed with other people's rankings, how about that? Happy now? Now for the argument at hand. I've seen Mitre, Nolasco and Pinto pitch in person. Have you? Prospect rankings are as much a popularity contest as anything else. If I had a quarter for every kid on "BA's Top X" list I'd be a millionaire by now. These guys are not difference makers, OK? You want to obsess over every last guy in the Cubs system, terrific, have fun, but I would like to point you to more objective outcomes. Namely, how many of such players have amounted to ANYTHING at the major league level?? Here's a fun parlor game for you: go back and look at these Cubs Top X lists the last five years. See how many of those kids are playing in the major leagues right now and get back to me.

Time to lock this thread. Superceded. :-)

Aw, c'mon Mush--Fez is a total zero, and Nolasco and Pinto only look good because they pitched well while REPEATING AA. That's a big leap to get from AA success to useful major leaguer, as their failure in AAA in 2004 attests. None of these guys are anything other than marginal prospects. So, good trade! When the situation is dire, you need to overpay, OK, but what's done is done. We finally have a leadoff man. You are right--if Pierre performs in 2006 as he did in either 2001, 2003, or 2004, Cub fans are going to be very VERY happy.

Wow, I want to see something done but we shouldn't need three highly rated prospects for a one-year rental from a team selling their team for spare parts. Again, Cub fan myopia. "Highly-rated prospects?" Here's Rotoworld's take (boldface is mine)-- The Chicago Tribune believes the Cubs are offering pitchers Sergio Mitre, Ricky Nolasco and Renyel Pinto to the Marlins for Juan Pierre. Not bad, though the Marlins could try to do better. If acquired, Mitre would go right into Florida's rotation. The other two should probably begin the year in Triple-A. Dec. 7 - 12:53 am et

Beat me to it, MPC. And The Kerry Wood Era goes out with a whimper, rather than a bang. Guess we need another starting pitcher after all.

I don't think that is the issue. The issue is Juan Pierre and his value. Who else are you going to get? Right now, there are a grand total of 4 outfielders on the Cubs 40-man roster, and one of those is about to jettisoned (Patterson). Who do you plan on playing in the OF in 2006, Jerry Hairston and John Mabry? Because that's what you have at this point. It's one thing for people to say "oh, these prospects are worth more than Juan Pierre" etc...Well, I think the market speaks volumes. Is any other team clamoring for those prospects? Where's the demand if they're so great? OK, the other argument. Use them to get Bradley, Wilkerson, insert name here. Um, if the other team doesn't WANT to trade them for the prospects you're offering, then that kind of proves the point, doesn't it?? If I offer Nolasco and Pinto to Washington for Wilkerson, and they come back and say "not interested", then guess what--you can't get more value for them than Juan Pierre.

Danny F. Jackson!! Todd "The Turd" Hundley. Bump Wills. Ron Cey. Kevin Tapani. Henry Rodriguez. Jaime Navarro. Randy Myers. Rod Beck. Candy Maldonado. Dave Smith. Jason Bere. Flash Gordon. Benito Santiago. I just had about 15 bad memories fly into my head at once. All of those guys were "hot commodities" in the year they hit the market. Shows how bad the Cubs have been at the FA game; what success the team has had has almost exclusively come via trades. Of that entire list above, the only signings that you can say were somewhat of a success were Dawson of course, probably Alou and Tapani, definitely Myers and Beck, maybe Flash. Danny Jackson, Todd Hundley, Dave Smith! Bump Wills, oh man I hated him. What a slug. CANDY MALDONADO! You know, it is SO sad, as a Cub fan honestly it makes me laugh most of the time. I mean, you can't TRY and be this pathetic, it exceeds all rational explanation. Yes, it is a curse.