Hrubes20

I strongly disagree. Just because it's unlikely many IFA's have made the bigs yet, doesn't mean we have to ignore prospect status and minor league success. Hell, that's exactly what we did for many of the draft picks during this time. Other teams have multiple LA arms that are showing great in the minors. I believe the Cubs have spent more in IFA in this FO's time than any other team not named the Dodgers (who are loaded with LA arm talent). Yet they don't have the number of regarded LA pitching prospects that teams spending far less have. That could change if Marquez blows up, De La Cruz and Albertos can actually stay healthy enough to log some innings, etc. But as of now, there just isn't as much as there probably should be. Otani won't be available to the Cubs this offseason, so we can forget him. And it would just depend on what a guy like Archer could be had for. It may very well be so costly in prospects that it makes zero sense. But what got this whole discussion started was the idea that Happ was too much to give up. That's just absurd.

To be accurate, I said amateur pitching talent, which includes IFA and makes the successes of other teams all the more glaring in comparison. Teams like the Cardinals, Dodgers, Red Sox, Mariners, Rangers, etc have had much more success than we have there. It especially sucks to see the Cards produce LA flamethrower after LA flamethrower. It is a Cubs forum afterall, but you are viewing a lot of these guys with blue-colored glasses, IMO. That entire 2012 class looks like crap right now and it's unlikely any of them pitch meaningful innings for the big league team. Zastryszny is the only guy in 2013, and he could be a long reliever. Cease does look like he can be a dynamite reliever if he can stay healthy; certainly not a given with him already having TJS. Steele can't throw strikes and is barely worth mentioning anymore, as his stuff isn't good enough with no command. The rest of that class is trash. The entire 2015 looks pretty terrible as well, unless Hudson can pull it together after a disastrous 2016. The latest from AZPhil sounds good, though. You're also missing a lot of legit pitching prospects or big league contributors that were taken after the Cubs' 2nd round pick in your assessment of other teams. I don't want to go through all of them, but here are some top 100 prospects or HM top 100 types you omitted: Brent Honeywell Josh Hader Amir Garrett Stephen Gonsalves Mitch Keller Jose De Leon Brandon Woodruff Jharrel Cotton Anthony Banda Juan Hillman Daniel Gossett Conner Greene Some of the big leaguers off the top of my head and I'm sure there are many more, but I don't have time to look at every roster: Edwin Diaz Keone Kela Robert Gsellman Kyle Barraclough Kyle Crockett But the numbers are obviously still low. I would like to see the percentage of "hits" during this time period, as it feels like the Cubs took more pitchers than most teams, yet still had maybe an average amount of guys somewhat pan out.

Arrieta was really good in 3 of 4 starts last playoffs. That team absolutely had a 3 horse rotation and to think otherwise is ridiculous. But he's gone after the season and Lester is another year older. You don't mess around with any of the premium years of this core by putting out a playoff rotation of Lester/Hendricks/Mike Montgomery?/Cobb?/Liriano?/Butler?/Mills?. This FO may be the best in the business at recognizing and developing amateur offensive talent. Up to this point, they've been bad at recognizing and developing amateur pitching talent. I have all the faith in the world that they can find another Happ. I don't believe they can find a guy like, say, Chris Archer. Eddie Butler and Mike Montgomery disagree. I have no idea what those two have to do with any of what I said. They weren't amateur pitching talent, which is what I directly referenced. Jury is still absolutely out on whether or not either could be a long term SP for the big league team. The only non-Arrieta top tier FA SPs are Yu Darvish (31 and a recent TJS) and Johnny Cueto (32, a lot of innings pitched, and a previous elbow injury as well). Does anyone feel comfortable giving either of these guys 6 years and $20-24 million per? That would be $64+ million in only Lester/FA SP/Heyward at a time when the hitting is going to start getting more expensive. The new TV deal should help of course, but we will never be the Dodgers. It's not a question of them HAVING to pull the trigger on a SP trade. It's a question of whether it is the prudent thing to do. Paying market prices for 30+ year old SPs has not been kind to most teams as of late.

Nope, not really. It's still baseball. Only it's in short series so random lucky crap means a lot more. So, if anything, you could argue the opposite of what you said. You need better to make it through 162 than you necessarily do in a best of 5 and two best of 7s. I mean 1/4 of our playoff rotation was absolute trash last year and we still won the world series...and arrieta was just decent overall. lester and hendricks were great, obviously. the point is, our starting pitching was a bit of a mixed bag and we won it all. Arrieta was really good in 3 of 4 starts last playoffs. That team absolutely had a 3 horse rotation and to think otherwise is ridiculous. But he's gone after the season and Lester is another year older. You don't mess around with any of the premium years of this core by putting out a playoff rotation of Lester/Hendricks/Mike Montgomery?/Cobb?/Liriano?/Butler?/Mills?. This FO may be the best in the business at recognizing and developing amateur offensive talent. Up to this point, they've been bad at recognizing and developing amateur pitching talent. I have all the faith in the world that they can find another Happ. I don't believe they can find a guy like, say, Chris Archer.

So he can fight for 350 PAs each of the next 2 years at the big league level, while 60% of the starting rotation reaches FA? This organization knows how to find people to pitch well enough to win games with this defense and offense. I'm not all that worried about it, whether they sign a couple guys or trade for someone who is undervalued. Trading what is starting to look like an elite young bat (drafted and developed by guys who have had quite a bit of success with that recently) isn't a necessity. Sure. They can find the Jason Hammels, John Lackeys, and Brett Andersons to get the team to the playoffs. But you need better than that to contend once you get there. It's highly unlikely they luck into an Arrieta situation again. Happ has looked terrific ever since ST began, but we should probably pump the brakes on him with only an 8 game sample size. Let's see if he's still making contact this well after 150 PAs. Remember that he's playing in the 2nd most hitter friendly league in all of minor league baseball and he's still not good defensively.

Seriously, he shouldn't be going anywhere except to our 25-man next year (or even sometime this year). So he can fight for 350 PAs each of the next 2 years at the big league level, while 60% of the starting rotation reaches FA?

And Candelario rips a 1-1 pitch for a 2B in his first AB. I believe that's 10 XBHs already. Former Phillie great Vance Worley is the opposing pitcher today.

Keep beefing up that trade value, Happ.

6 up, 6 groundball outs for Hatch in his pro debut. Milb gameday is extremely suspect, but according to it, he's all around the edges and is not getting calls.

23 year old Kyle Funkhouser just had his way with the young South Bend lineup in Game 1. 9 Ks in 5 innings. D.J. Wilson with 2 Ks. Paredes, Galindo, and Peguero with 1. Not surprising to see old collegiate talent dominate young hitters though.

South Bend postponed already for today.

I believe he's been dealing with some sort of arm injury.

No idea, unfortunately. I was just given the top 101. None of it has been published online yet.

Not the Cubs list per se, but the BP top 101 has the following: 9. Eloy 54. Happ 77. Almora 87. CLIFTON Gleyber was 15, fwiw.

I think they tweaked service time rules when the new CBA begins? But it's nothing groundbreaking, i.e. It won't be "The Kris Bryant Rule." They did tweak them in the new CBA, but I haven't seen anything that says that the grievance was dismissed in its entirety.

Wasn't sure where to put it, but with the Cardinals hacking punichment announcement, it made me remember that the MLBPA filed a grievance on behalf of Bryant last offseason in regards to the service time shenanigans. Have we seen any resolution to this? A quick google search brought up nothing.

Where was Gleyber? 4 overall Should be noted that he had Moncada at 17.

I don't have the write up, but he has Happ at 63 today.

Fangraphs has their top 23 up: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/top-23-prospects-chicago-cubs/ Albertos keeps creeping higher and higher.

I read it that way too. As in, he's heard a comp that is such high praise that he doesn't even want to mention it. Manny would be a solid guess. Miggy had some great bat/power grades coming up as well.

The bolded is certainly fair.

Agreed wholeheartedly. At this point I would like to stick him in the pen and see how his stuff plays.

Candelario would be a top 10 prospect in the majority of systems in baseball. Probably the 9th or 10th prospect in the better ones, but he's still a legit guy. Zagunis probably makes plenty of top 10 lists as well, just due to his proximity to the majors. Many lists will throw a guy like him in at #10. Wilson and Albertos aren't making many lists though. As others have mentioned, this kind of thing happens when you graduate loads of talent to the big league team the past 2 years, and then deal from the remainder of the farm to bolster those graduates for a WS run.

Morejon especially. He appeared to be wrapped up for the Cubs with a nice shiny ribbon. Thanks MLB.

I'd take the percieved ceiling of any of Newcomb, Allard, Anderson, Muller, and Wentz over the perceieved ceiling of any Cubs arm prospect. Right off the bat all three in this system have missed all or most of a season to an elbow or shoulder issue, a nice way to put a dent into ceiling. The 41/41 K:BB in 58 IP in a pitcher's park isn't alarming? Even the 4 HRs...What are the ceilings of de la Cruz and Hudson? I'm with you on Hudson. That was truly as horrific of a year as you could have while still staying healthy. Can only hope they had him working on something very specific that was causing the walks and hard contact. This is one of the most difficult Cubs farms I've ever ranked in the offseason.