ZZ Thorn

Williamson is going to give the pen a huge lift.

Can't argue that but Prior bounced back and gave us a Quality Start anyway. that was a gutsy performance from Prior. I have to admit, all of our 3 pitchers in this series was a gusty performance. it's given me a lot of hope. this is as close to a playoff series as you get in season. if we get it, we'll do well, IMO. If we hold them off it should give us a lot of momentum for the rest of this crucial stretch of games vs. the Giants and then 3 (Dbacks, Phillies, Mets) series vs. wildcard contenders.

I thought you died? ;) No such luck for ya. I was brought back to life by chili.

That was large.

At least they're all solo shots - 3 runs isn't much.

I think we all saw that one coming. Now for the obligatory three pages of pregame insulting of the lineup. Yay! :roll: I can't believe Dusty is playing the Cubs! Why is he using his players!!!! AUGGHHH!!!! You pick stuff up quick Sarcastic. My god it's friggin hot. Why did I do so much yardwork today? I may die...if I don't make something to eat. Go Cu....[ZZ dies]

Did we get Dunn yet? I shot an 11 over in 9 holes again today - at least I'm consistent. Harder course tho.

I was really rooting for Boog Powell.

I'd say those two were about even. But why those two are succeeding or failing depends way more the individual themself than in the system. They've both gotten copious chances, Doobs did not excel. But the Twins HAVE to field that kind of team - they can't afford not too. That fact does remain, but that's not very sound thinking to me. I've gone over the main reason why that fact remains - they've had much better talent. That's a pretty important explanation to that remaining fact don't you think. If you just look at the remaining fact you're really leaving out a lot. Why did Doobs not get a second chance to start? They just don't have faith in him I guess, cuz he's not here anymore. Like with Choi, who hasn't done much in his pro career. Maybe they're wrong, but they have all the facts, and they'll get burned if they're wrong ya know? Murton's been up what two weeks? He's playing, if he keeps playing like he has he'll earn the starting spot don't you think? Holla was hitting very well too and benching him wouldn't have been a good move either. I agree Cedeno should play more, but he is playing some and that's something. I'm happy with Neifi. He's has done pretty darn well when you factor in his gold glove caliber fielding. He's come thru in some clutch situations all year, and while his OBP sucks, his BA is good for an SS, and BA is an important stat too in my book. Same thing goes with Macias.

Well, that's a generalization, it really depends on who's on your team. The Cardinals of the '80s wouldn't have been successful swinging for the fences would they? I don't think every batter having the same approach works well tho - different players have to fill different roles to make the team well-rounded, which over the course of 162 games seems vital to me. Over 162 games, every weakness will be thoroughly exposed and exploited.

Murton and Dubois are just as good of a prospect as Kelly Johnson who is referred to in Cox's quote above. If Dusty were managing the Braves, Mondesi would still be getting time in the outfield. You could bank on it. The proof is there. Cox allows his rookies to take their lumps and as a result the Braves consistiently turn out nice players. They were top prospects and maybe better than Dubois, Cedeno, and Murton. I'm not at home so I can't go back and compare rankings...but I think Choi was at least as highly rated as some of those when he were rising through the ranks. Here you go. http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2005/4/8/11438/38755 According to John Sickels, number 3 overall (note that he is above Giles :D ). I can't find the top whatever list for BA on their website. Thanks. I knew Choi was considered at least as good as those the Braves gave chances to. Wow, they sure were wrong about Choi eh? I know Choi was rated the highest among that Cub group I mentioned, now compare all the other prospects: for the Braves the Jones, Furcal, Giles, Estrada and for the Cubs Dubois, Hill, Murton, Cedeno then I'll consider your objections well-rounded. I'd do it, but I've already had this exact discussion before. The Braves I named are mainly top 10 prospects by BA. Choi and Hill were the only top 50 guys. Morneau is a totally top blue chip prospect....Again, you want to prove your point by bringing up the top few excellers in this field - you ignore the other 25 teams who do the same thing as fail. Why is that? It really comes down not to the manager and his philosphy, but the talent the manager is given I believe.

BK actually did a study on this and found that small ball teams don't really score runs more consistently than long ball teams. He just found that they tend to score fewer runs. Well empirical generalizations are interesting, but that doesn't mean they apply to every situation - as the word 'generalization' implies. I know I watched the Cubs very closely - and when we had Lofton we scored more consistently from game to game than we did in '04, with a team that lead the NL in home runs. Emprically the 2004 Cubs were one run better in total offense, but that just proves how statistics can be misleading and fail to take many factors into account. If you want to talk about how it's best to have your 1-8 hitters hit 60 home runs apiece as compared with a small ball team, I'd agree, but in real life situations, not in the airless and overconfident void of statistics, having balance to the lineup is a real-world neccesity. I'd like to see a real leadoff hitter like Pierre or Podsednik on the Cubs team to provide balance since we have holes and don't have 8 Babe Ruths and never will. When I think of 'small ball' I don't think of a team that scores a lot of runs, I think of a team that tries to be the most efficient and takes advantage of every opportunity, which results in more consistency, and which (for which there is no stat for) is a more tenacious team to face 3 times in a row.

Poor Kerry, I bet no one's more ticked than him. Just when the rotation was starting to gel....

Corey is looking like the Shawon Dunston of the new millenium (except Corey's not a thug).

The Jones, Giles, Estrada, Furcal, Lopez... all all-stars and all top prospects, and I mean top prospects. Unlike Hill, Choi, Dubois, Cedeno... and Murton. Not even close to those guys in terms of 'prospect stature' when they made the bigs. Does anyone think Murton be a perennial all-star, like people all but guaranteed with some of those Braves prospects. He's not in the same category as a prospect as the above guys, tho he was having a phonomenal year at AA. I'd say Bobby Cox is a great regular season manager, but he's also been given phonomenal talent, to say nothing of the pitching. But I agree with his philosophy, throw 'em out there see how they do, but tossing out top 10 prospects like the ones I mention is a no brainer. Who would have any problems taking their lumps with guys like that? I think we could have Dunn and Murton in LF and CF. Murton's a smart hitter, with speed - sure hope he gets a chance to leadoff soon. I wouldn't expect him to need to change his batting style either, he already has such a good approach. His approach is so foreign to me as a Cubs fan - someone who goes to the plate, waits as long as he can to hit it to center and right every time, as opposed to looking to pull the home run every time? Then when he gets into a hitters count then maybe look for a pitch to pull? I like it.

Um...the Yankees and Atlanta have rookies who are helping as we speak. Atlanta had 10 rookies on the team at one point this season. Same with the DBacks recently, but how many of these players platoon and how many were handed the starting job outright? I'll bet it's heavily weighted towards the normal usage for rookies, the platoon. If Dubois hadn't done not that well, he could have started for us.... Thankfully, Murton is off to a much better start.

When it comes to judging a player, those intangibles shouldn't be the first thing to look at though. If the guy can run fast and play good defense, that's great. It's a bonus. Cubs actually scored less runs with Lofton at the top, and I don't see how Coleman helped his teams a lot with that .324 OBP. You can't steal 1B. :wink: But you can steal second and third, as he often did. The '04 team scored runs in bunches, often going several games with 1-2 runs then exploding for 10. When Lofton was here we were much more consistent. You need to check (or create) a Team Runs Consistency stat.

I think you have something. Thirded. Some people still undervalue Scott Podsednik, who is the white, less accomplished Juan Pierre with a better SB rate, but he's the MVP of the White Sox to this point.

People may say I'm just backing Dusty, but I don't know too many situtations where rookies start every day, on a contending team, in their first call up. The guy is getting PT, so I can't really complain, yet. What I liked about that 4 hit day is that 2 of those hits were scrappy infield hits that Murton beat out with his speed. That's a pretty typical leadoff hitter's trait. Murton also has good SB speed - he said that Boston never gave him enough opportunities to steal bases - hopefully he can be successful the first few times Dusty lets him steal. If Dusty 'hates' Hairston as some suspect, then Murton should get some more PT with the way he's playing.

What about Murton in CF and leading off? He looks like he definitely has the speed to have good range defensively and it's not hard to outproduce Hairston offensively lately. Murton is off to a great start, which is Rookie Must #1 in getting Dusty to notice your talent when you are not a blue chipper.

What an idiotic statement. Cubs fans have stood by their team for nearly 100 freakin years. We are allowed to be harsh on under-acheivers after all the crap we have had to endure. You do realize I was taking that from the article right...just checking. Well, reps change. Sammy Sosa was a megastar, and the whole country saw how we booed him out of town. I think it's logical that such action could have slightly altered the perception of Cub fans. It makes sense to me that people would say, 'man, those Cubs sure turned on Sammy Sosa. Wasn't he their hero just last year or so?' Then we run out LaTroy, then we boo Corey non-stop.... It's a different breed of Cub fan than year's past IMO. Maybe it'll stick, maybe it won't.

All these attempts at character assassination... tsk tsk. I'm not starting any rumors - I just posted the facts. There's the Miles info and the McCoy info and they conflict. It'll all come out in the wash.... The Reds radio broadcast and Miles gave the same info, and that still is not enough? Columbus and ZZ give differing accounts. If I've kept it straight, Columbus on TV heard Hendry talk with Brenneman with Hendry saying the price was too steep for the Cubs. ZZ heard on the radio the converse, saying the price was too steep for the Reds. I think I've followed that, basically a bunch of misinformation and he said she said, nothing out of the ordinary given baseball trade talk near the deadline, especially with Hendry. Columbus heard it on the radio along with his wife and was sure that they said the Cubs said the price was too steep. This is lock step with what Bruce Miles said. I don't see where the differnce is? ? Both said there's no deal, which we can all agree on, but one said it was no deal for Hill, one said no deal for Hill, CP and Mitre. Big difference. It'll all come out in the wash. As stated, Hendry does a good job watching his back as he should to try and wrest the best deal. If he can get us Dunn and give up CP, Mitre and not Hill I'd be amazed and hope he can. It's been fun - I have a half-read Mad Magazine to attend to and a busy afternoon planned. This thread will live another day - and that surprises me. Go Cubs!

Just to recap... McCoy said it was not straight up Dunn for Hill, but Dunn for Hill, CP and Mitre. Maybe both were offered. The nature of news is fluid and ever-changing after all.

Awesome. I agree. The truth can be brutal unfortunately.

I think we acted too slowly, actually. I'm not going to tell you why we know he was a troll. You're free to believe we made a mistake. I can't believe it - I don't know all the facts. Thus the 'perhaps'....