ZZ Thorn

I don't really get that. Why does Corey have to be a leadoff hitter simply because he's 5'10'' and fast if that's not where his talen with the bat lies? And I'd like to see where a coach has said that Corey isn't coachable. Gene Clines (1 of 3 active coaches he had at the big league level) said that he's quite coachable as recently as three weeks ago and he worked extra time to convert his batting approach late last season, this offseason, this spring, and this season up until now. Just because something doesn't work out doesn't mean it's because he's stubborn. In my opinion, it's what they were trying to make him that was the problem. Four of five seasons in the majors isn't the best time to all of a sudden turn Patterson into a slappy leadoff hitter. When did Corey ever even try to become a slappy leadoff hitter? He's swung from his heels on every pitch for as long as I can remember. This year was the first he really tried to bunt for hits a lot. He's finally talking about shortening his long, loopy sluggers swing. Corey may have worked with the coaches, but in the batter's box he clearly followed his own logic. Pie started playing baseball when he was 14 as I recall. He has to be more coachable than Corey to have gotten this far or to even have a chance to go futher - he can't possibly know as many nuances of the game as Corey did at similar ages. Pie is still learning and has potential - Corey is rapidly getting to be an old dog who can't learn new tricks. I sure hope he makes some serious changes in AAA of course. Pie will take some lumps, I don't doubt that, but there are differences between Corey and Pie that make me think Pie will be more malleable and successful in his first several seasons. Anyway, Pie doesn't have to do very well to improve upon Corey's 'successes' in the leadoff spot.

I'm so glad we have Dempster closing.

Abreu's skeptical look at whoever was singing "God Bless America" was hilarious. He produces a ton AND has good taste in music: get him on the Cubs Jim.

Corey might be the strongest pound-for-pound, but a heavyweight always beats the middleweight (unless you're Roy Jones Jr., and Corey isn't half the athelte Roy is, and it's not like Roy could beat every heavyweight.) If Corey was a big mook like Dunn he'd be fine swinging from his heels every time, but he's not.

I agree that Corey is not a slugger, but that he thinks he is. He swings from his heels on every swing, which is what a slugger does. Also, I think Penguin's point that Corey never carried the team this year is pretty telling. If you play everyday like Corey, no matter how much you are moved around in the lineup, and you don't have even a short stretch when you carry the team, you deserve to lose your starting job or be demoted.

Abreu's been the most underrated position player for some time, but I still wouldn't give up Z for him. I could see Abreu being traded tho - he's (like everyone else who plays sports in Philly it seems) had a tenuous relationship with the fans, owner and media and has a huge contract, tho only for a couple more years. With Sosa off the books after this year, the Cubs could afford him, but not for Z.

THEY HAVE PENN STATIONS IN INDIANAPOLIS! THEY HAVE PENN STATIONS IN INDIANAPOLIS!

While CP and Pie have similar situations, the type of player and person they are seems to be very different. Pie isn't 'going against type' - he's not trying to be a little man playing a big man's game. And coaches have constantly raved about Pie's coachability - a trait we know Patterson didn't have. So while I wish Pie would get more time in the minors, I'm not all that worried that he'll turn into another CP debacle. I predict he'll be far more flexible and adaptable. With Kotsay gone, I don't think there's an CF/leadoff hitter that's that big an upgrade over Pie. Even Hairston. I also think Pie is the type of blue chip prospect that Dusty plays, unless Pie proves to be totally overmatched.

No. Also verboten. I never intended to. The question was made to indicate how demeaning the term Dusty Buster is. When someone clarifies a post as being from a group as such, it implies that no objective thought is being used. Thanks for clarifying. So, by this, am I to understand that I shouldn't expect to see the use of the label "Dusty Busters" again? But Dusty Busting isn't objective, that's why it's Dusty Busting. If Dusty puts Jose Macias in to close out a game, then the bashing is totally fair. It's the unjustified busting that gets called out by Dusty Buster users.

It's not alliteration, but it is assonance -- the repetition of vowel sounds. Dusty Buster. And I seemingly recall, some time ago, a request was made to stop using labelling posters and arbitrarily grouping them together using a potential perjorative -- Corey Cartel spring immediately to mind; I believe that the Dusty Buster label would be included among them, particularly as used in this instance. Thanks Brinoch, I was thinking of the recent "Dunn Detractors," which is alliteration. Dusty Busters is most definitely not alliteration - nice catch, my bad. Dusty Fluffers is too dirty and unclassy. It's good, but inappropriate. I recall that request, but I figured Dusty Busters gets grandfathered, it's been around so long. Practically a year. It's really not that big a deal. If it wasn't so apt I'd give it up but, sadly, Dusty Busting, while not as prevalent as it used to be, and the virulence it's uttered with is not as unreasonable, compared with it's earliest forms, is still a prejudice widespread enough, as well as a philosophy with a thesis that must not be deviated from, despite facts, figures or ethics, almost a manifesto, and through which everything must be fit around, like dizzy electrons swirling around a nucleus, that an appropriate label must be affixed so as to avoid constant arguments and posts questioning and discussing the motives and underlying beliefs of certain posts, namely those that seek to scapegoat Johnnie B. Baker unfairly and without just cause. It is a great timesaving device, and since Dusty Busters openly declare their intention of Dusty busting, I don't see any reason to abandon the phrase. It's so catchy and yet so appropriately descriptive. It's quite useful.

Let's say Sosa was on the Cubs squad this year and the Cubs were one game under .500 going into the all-star break - I shudder to think what the media around here would be like. I love Sammy, but I thought it was time for him to go. Not a bad trade, not a great trade - just had to be done.

What's wrong with Hill being a great lefty in the pen? I sure liked Kearns back in the day, but those days were a long time ago.

Interesting. I know its pretty much unfoudned, But i have a real strange feeling bakers days here are officially over. Dusty Busters have been saying that since last fall.... I'm sure it's right around the corner. :roll: Oh grow up. First of all, If dusty busters is a term used to describe people who are sick of the worst lineups immaginable and horrid in game moves, then sure, I'm a dusty buster. Secondly, how can you disagree that him being canned is right aroudn the corner, Even if it doesnt come today or tomorrow like i feel, Its gonna come soon. I know you're a Dusty Buster. A typical feeling of Dusty Buster would be a crazy notion that his being fired is just around the corner. He is not. I'll bet you cold hard cash if you want: If you bet me $20 that he'll get fired in the next week I'll give you 20 to 1 odds that he doesn't - if he does that's $400 for you. But if you don't pay me when you lose, Tim gets to ban you. He won't draw the heat for losing - that's going to CP, Doobs, the injuries and thus far underperforming pitching. Weren't you asked by the mods to stop using that term? I read through the last six pages thinking that, and when I finally get to the I see that Vance has stolen my thunder by beating me to the punch. Not to my knowledge. It's a durn good term: extremely apt, good use of alliteration, excellent meter, but I digress out of modesty. I think they appreciate quality and it's pretty harmless, except to the oversensitive. I mean, there have been imitators, but that's the original.

I'd trade Felix Pie before I traded Wood or Zambrano. Those guys are so rare - I'd trade the entire farm before them. They aren't going anywhere. With the weak FA crop, some cornerstones and only a few weak spots I hope this is the year Hendry pulls the trigger and deals some of our top prospects for solid ML ballplayers.

Very true Mizzou. Can we really go with a youth movement? We have all this great starting pitching, and finally a closer too. Guys like Huff, Kotsay and Baez would be great pickups IMO. They're signed thru next year, so they aren't rentals and if they tank we can dump them quick. They're still young enough that they'll be in their prime for at least several years. They aren't going to demand huge contracts either. They'll help the team now too, and this team needs help now. They may cost us a blue chip prospect and a couple very good prospects, but Christ, this team needs some quality players like Kotsay and Huff. If we gotta pay we gotta pay. Since 2003 I've been wondering when Hendry was going to trade from his stable of prospects. He's given up Jones and that's about it. I sure hope this year he cuts the cord and gets us some solid players. I wanted him to trade some blue chippers for Mike Lowell back in 2003 - Huff and Kotsay are of that mold: it's worth trading a blue chipper for guys of this quality and of such a need for us.

Every friggin negative thread turns into a Dusty Bust-a-thon. Christ. I thought we were talking about CP, Doobs and who will play CF for us? I sure don't want Hairston in there full time.

Interesting. I know its pretty much unfoudned, But i have a real strange feeling bakers days here are officially over. Dusty Busters have been saying that since last fall.... I'm sure it's right around the corner. :roll: Oh grow up. First of all, If dusty busters is a term used to describe people who are sick of the worst lineups immaginable and horrid in game moves, then sure, I'm a dusty buster. Secondly, how can you disagree that him being canned is right aroudn the corner, Even if it doesnt come today or tomorrow like i feel, Its gonna come soon. I know you're a Dusty Buster. A typical feeling of Dusty Buster would be a crazy notion that his being fired is just around the corner. He is not. I'll bet you cold hard cash if you want: If you bet me $20 that he'll get fired in the next week I'll give you 20 to 1 odds that he doesn't - if he does that's $400 for you. But if you don't pay me when you lose, Tim gets to ban you. He won't draw the heat for losing - that's going to CP, Doobs, the injuries and thus far underperforming pitching.

Interesting. I know its pretty much unfoudned, But i have a real strange feeling bakers days here are officially over. Dusty Busters have been saying that since last fall.... I'm sure it's right around the corner. :roll:

Oh, I agree that if Pie didn't get hurt, he'd be in the bigs. But I also think it would be too soon to bring him up. They brought CPatt up too soon, and it hasn't worked yet, so I'd be cautious with a future star like Pie. Maybe the Cubs jerked around CP, but most of his blame falls on his own stubborn shoulders. He always wanted to do things his own way - saying he wanted to leadoff should have passed his lips 3 years ago, or earlier - and I hope he succeeds, somewhere else. The Dusty Busters are hilarious. You guys are like rabid Marxists - absolutely everything must first pass thru the "How does this affect Dusty being fired" gauntlet. It's a constant filter on every Cubs thought for y'all isn't it? Example: "Hendry had Cheerios today? Does that mean the fibrous goodness will lead Hendry to proper digestion and thus to better thinking and then to Dusty's firing?" Example #2: "Bombings in London? Does this mean Hendry will realize how precious time is and that life is a gift and fire Dusty immediately?" What's unfortunate is that the Dusty Busters rarely achieve the even low level of humor posted above.

I just heard about it today. It's a pretty big deal: who is our future CF now? We don't know anymore. I think Corey is gone - he won't come back as a Cub and will be traded. I think we're going to trade for Kotsay and the CP experiment is over. Holla is hot now, sure, but he's no long term solution and is still best as a 4th OF. I don't think Hendry will throw in the towel on this season - we have too much pitching talent that has been hurt and ineffective. This is not that kind of a team and we don't have that many position players to call up and start anyway. Pie, Murton, Cedeno, who at second, Richie Lewis. So that's 3 players, one or 2 of who may take over full time anyway. Pitching wise we already have a pen full of youngsters, and there's 4 starting pitchers who will never sit when healthy.

problem is, he's not the 25th man. Yep. Cubs PH Hits-AB: Jose Macias, 7-31 Todd Hollandsworth, 3-12 Jason Dubois, 3-12 Jerry Hairston, 2-12 Ben Grieve, 3-10 Jose Macias is called upon time and again by Dusty to PH, particularly in key spots (i.e. Monday Night). He fails at a dramatic rate. He is Dusty's go-to guy off the bench and the stats bear it out plain as can be. It's disgusting. No way - your stats are faulty cuz they only like at pinch hit at bats. Holla, Doobs, Hairston - they all have more ABs cuz they get starts. Macias gets what, 7 starts a year? For the billionth time, Dusty plays everybody. Macias is the 25th man. He has to get some ABs otherwise he'll be totally worthless, which he was not last night.

Dusty plays everyone, Murton at least will get his fair share of ABs. Macias has the fewest ABs of anyone other than Blanco for God's sake, he is the 25th man. In ratios, Cedeno is getting about as many ABs/game as Macias. Macias is not the 10th man people. What a surprise this morning! It's not like both of them didn't deserve the demotion. I agree with the move - but this season is rapidly going past the point of no return.

That's what I remember.

I've seen that, don't know what it's called. I thought pepper was a game where you practice rundowns. That's a pickle, havent you seen The Sandlot? Never heard of it. Pickle huh? That's certainly more apt, but we called it Pepper. Not saying we were right, but that's what we did. And those were the days... back when pickle was pepper.

I've seen that, don't know what it's called. I thought pepper was a game where you practice rundowns.