CubfaninCA

SanFran/NYY, two totally different situations. The level of NYY's "buying their talent" is so far above and beyond what SF is capable of. However, besides Jeter, Joe played a major role in developing Jorge and Soriano. He's also been willing to just hand jobs to guys like Robinson Cano even though big market teams aren't supposed to do that in a pennant race. Joe also showed a willingness to use kids from the system on the bench on a regular basis, like Shane Spencer. That's 4 kids he's handed the keys to the starting job to, and stuck with them, just in his 10 years in NY. I don't know much about his previous stints as a manager. You think Dusty would have ruined Soriano and Posada?? What players did Baker miss on in SF?? Come to think of it what hitters have the Cubs developed in the past 10 years?? Perhaps the Cub system just really suks?? Way to change the subject. The point is Joe gave those guys the jobs, while you insinuated he'd developed no more players than Baker. This excuse making for Baker is absolutely pathetic. Some hyperbole has certainly been used in the blasting nof Dusty Baker, but it doesn't chang the fact that he's done an awful job with this team and should be replaced immediately. All this other nonsense is just a distraction from that one very important point. Just forgot about Soriano. Sorry. The subject still is Baker being unable to develop players. If people can start rattling off players he'd messed up, I'd like to see it. I never followed SF closely, so I'm not sure how their farm system looked several years ago. I do know the Cubs have given him little to work with, and also he's given Patterson every chance imaginable. Yes, I'd like to see Baker gone too. He's a poor tactician.

SanFran/NYY, two totally different situations. The level of NYY's "buying their talent" is so far above and beyond what SF is capable of. However, besides Jeter, Joe played a major role in developing Jorge and Soriano. He's also been willing to just hand jobs to guys like Robinson Cano even though big market teams aren't supposed to do that in a pennant race. Joe also showed a willingness to use kids from the system on the bench on a regular basis, like Shane Spencer. That's 4 kids he's handed the keys to the starting job to, and stuck with them, just in his 10 years in NY. I don't know much about his previous stints as a manager. You think Dusty would have ruined Soriano and Posada?? What players did Baker miss on in SF?? Come to think of it what hitters have the Cubs developed in the past 10 years?? Perhaps the Cub system just really suks??

I don't think anyone on this board except for a few Q&As have played pro ball, why should anyone on this board be critical of anyone in the game? Let's hold hands and sing the praises b/c we have no idea of what should be done and they do. I don't think Miles should offer up an opinion either, despite following the Cubs years upon years, his lack of experience makes any crticism of the team invalid. What the hell, let's shut down this message board too, there are too many negative opinions from unqualified posters. And how dare you say he is behind the times, what is your playing experience? There's nothing wrong w/ criticism. There's just not much objectivity. For some, Baker can do nothing right. He's an absolute moron. Sometimes it's like reading Rush Limbaugh commenting on baseball.

San Francisco's been a big market team for quite some time and big market teams tend to buy their players, not develop them. How many players has Torre developed besides Jetah and Rivera?? All this stuff about Baker not developing players is blown out of proportion. It's not like he has been managing for Cincy or Oakland.

You and the Tribune Company. :o

And after 10+ years as a major league manager I think he's successfully brought one more rookie to the majors than everyone on this board combined, too. The Cubs haven't given him much to work with. Rich Aurilia. There's his one position player from the Giants. In 10 years. I'm sure that was just due to a lack of personnel. Obviously, undue criticism. The "you've never played the game" argument? Very weak. Actually, the "you've never played the game" argument does hold some water, especially in a game of skill like baseball. When someone hits like Baker did, they know a thing or two. Putting young guys in spot's where they're at more of an advantage is smart. Maybe if Baker just played Choi against pitchers w/ 7 and over ERA's, he'd be a superstar now. :o

Haven't some of the relievers come up through the Cub system?? Wuertz and Ohman right?? Novoa barely pitched w/ Detroit right?? Perhaps I'm wrong on this though.

And after 10+ years as a major league manager I think he's successfully brought one more rookie to the majors than everyone on this board combined, too. The Cubs haven't given him much to work with.

Ah the vitriol. Can anyone ever give Baker any credit?? Considering he actually played the game he may know a thing or two. Yes, he's a behind the times, but the guy has more hits and homers than this entire board combined. As for Choi and DuBois, yes it's Baker's fault they're riding the pine w/ LA and Cleveland. :roll:

Just get Lofton. Not too expensive, can leadoff, is an apple in Dusty's eye, and holds down the fort til Pie's ready.

Furcal, Lofton, Lee, Floyd, ARam, Soriano, Murton & Barrett works for me. Rotation Z, Millwood, Prior, Wood & Maddux..

I don't often respond to my own posts, but I figured I would put out a pre-emptive post. I figured many fans would respond to the quote above by mentioning Rafael Furcal's name. If the Cubs spend the money on Furcal, then they might not have enough left over to get someone like Giles and Burnett or Giles and Damon or Giles and whomever. If they don't, who is going to hit lead-off? Furcal isn't that great of a lead-off hitter and would be very expensive. But that's not the worst of it. The biggest negative impact if the Cubs signed Furcal would be felt over the next 4 years because he would be blocking Cedeno from being the Cubs everyday shortstop during that time. This is important. Having a good and inexpensive SS is a huge advantage for a team. It would allow the Cubs to spend their money keeping players like Z, Prior and Lee for many years as well as adding players like Burnett, Giles and Dunn when the need/opportunity arises. Cedeno playing a solid SS for the Cubs in the future is huge, and signing Furcal would squander that opportunity before the Cubs had a chance to use it. Having Cedeno play 2B doesn't save the Cubs the same amount of money because, as Walker as shown, it is fairly possible to sign a productive 2B for only a few million. But productive SSs are much more expensive. That's why allowing Cedeno to grow into the starting SS and having him on the cheap for several years would be such a big opportunity for the Cubs to put together and keep together a team that is capable of winning it all over a period of several seasons. The chances of getting Burnett, Giles or Damon are slim & none. The best recent free agent the Cubs got was Alou, who was an injury prone player. Hence they only had to offer him 3 years. Considering the history of this franchise, Furcal's may be the best FA we can hope for. Shouldn't be lots of competition for him since many of the big market teams have good shortstop's. Getting Millwood would be nice too.

By the way, in case anybody had forgotten, Paul Sullivan reminded us in today's Chicago Tribune: "[Lofton] shows no signs of slowing down and is a favorite of Baker and Hendry." Makes lots and lots of sense to sign Lofton. He's from Chicago. Iirc has played for Baker for several years. Is a vet w/ playoff experience. And he's cheap, can fill in for a year, and be an effective Baker-type leadoff man. Lofton & Furcal @ the top of the order could be pretty interesting.

Why? I am pretty intrigued by a Guillen possibility. From strictly a baseball standpoint, he's practically a perfect fit for the Jim Hendry style. He's a swing early and swing often kind of guy, but he's moderately successful with that approach. He's been a .290/.350/.490 guy the past few years. That kind of line would be perfectly acceptable for this Cubs team. He is by no means ideal though. He doesn't help much in the approach/OBP department. He's a moron and a troublemaker as well, which is why I doubt Hendry would be interested. However, if he were to somehow get Guillen on the cheap, he could help the team. I would have rather had him than Burnitz this year at similar cost. What would have been nice would have been Guillen in left this season, that could have saved a lot of headaches. Bringing up a previously stated option that I didn't like, I could see Hendry going hard after Preston Wilson and Jose Guillen, filling CF and RF, and allowing him to go with Murton in LF. You wouldn't be getting a ton of production out of any of your OF, but you should get moderate production overall, and for relatively low prices. The Cubs would once again run into the problem of too many 6th/7th hole type hitters, and no ideal leadoff man, but it would be interesting. Can't see Preston Wilson accepting a 1 year deal. He has some value and can demand more. Most likely Hendry will go after a 1 year stop gap, which makes Lofton, Hunter and Cameron likley options, or they'll just throw Patterson out there again.

If the Cubs did go Murton/Lofton for LF/CF, regardless of who they bring in to play RF, I think the Cubs would try to get more power from the infield, which leads me to believe they would trade Walker and a decent pitcher to Texas for Soriano. And if we take CubfaninCa's idea for acquiring Cliff Floyd, this is the lineup I could see: Lofton Murton Lee Floyd Ramirez Soriano Barrett Cedeno I'm not optimistic the Cubs will keep Garciaparra, although under the right financial circumstances, it is do-able if they choose to. Hoops Seems like Texas is going to demand a hefty return for Soriano. Can see them wanting Jerome Williams. That lineup you have looks real good. However I can see Walker being used to get Floyd. Boston and NY could both use him. NY's top of the order obp is brutal.

some people want to be able to say 'told you so' after giles signs elsewhere, so they have to inject their thoughts on the matter into every thread. Looks like you were the first to throw Giles into this. *shrug*

Blanco numbers look so good cause he hasn't had to catch for Mitre, Koronka, Hill, and the other guys who have gotten bombed. Burnitz has been awful.

Say no to Guillen. Say no to Milton Bradley. Get Cliff Floyd. That's the perfect Cub pickup. Not too expensive due to his health problems in the past, and can put him in between Lee and ARam. Of course, he'll be hurt by July. :o

Add another team that's probably ahead of the Cubs in the Giles sweepstakes. I got SD, LA, Anaheim, Houston, St. Louis, Boston and Atlanta for starters.

I have no problem w/ letting Nomar walk and batting Murton 2nd.

I still think Hendry will sign Kenny Lofton to a 1-year incentive-laden deal to play CF and lead-off. That will give Felix Pie another season in the minors - perhaps he'll be a 2nd half call-up. With the Lofton signing, I also think Hendry will keep Hairston as a utility player, who can start in CF against tough lefties. I think many in the Cubs brass still believe that for 2006 Lofton will come very close to duplicating his .388 OBP from this year and his .381 OBP in the 2nd half of 2003. Supposedly, with the exception of Sosa and Alou, his teammates loved him in 2003. Are you getting this from your source?? Lofton in cf for a year makes some sense. However, I thought Hendry and Baker don't really care for Hairston?? Sounds like they want to get Pie to the majors pretty soon.

Have to agree here. Bring him back and he'll be batting 4th again. :(

If you have the kind of money Giles has, there is nothing crappy about Southern California. Also, his current team is likely to make the playoffs, while Chicago clearly isn't. From a non-Cub-biased view, the Padres are already home, already a "contender", and probably will make a good offer. If he leaves SD for Chicago, there is a legitimate argument that can be made to say he goes only for more money (and not because he wants to win). One reason he might want to leave San Diego is he (amongst other Padres) is still an outspoken critic of Petco. He might want to play at a better hitter's ballpark (though he doesn't need to leave Southern California for that). Would not be surprised to see the Dodgers targeting him considering who their GM is, and that they gave Drew a big deal. Also, can see St. Louis and Houston making a stronger run @ Giles than the Cubs. I recall Bruce Miles writing that it doesn't seem the Cubs have much interest in Giles.

How about Cliff Floyd for rf?

Can see Konerko ending up in Boston, and perhaps Burnett too. My guess is that the Cubs stick their nose into the Manny trade talks w/ NY and try to get Cameron or Floyd. Perhaps they could get both for Murton, Patterson and Walker. I wouldn't trade Murton since he can be a cheap and productive outfielder for many years. He also has good baseball instincts, which is something this club desperately needs more of next year. I never liked Cameron with the WhiteSox, he is very streaky; I almost rather hang onto Patterson. Floyd would be a nice bat in the lineup and we might be able to get him for Walker and a prospect. Floyd cou;ld return to rightfield and Murton could play left. Not very good defensively, but a full season of them would be a major upgrade over what we have gotten this year out of the corner outfielders. Would Floyd's arm be considered average for rf?? I see his arm's considered above avg. for lf. Boston and NY could both use Walker, so such a swap makes sense. However, I don't want to see Murton, Cedeno & Patterson all in the same lineup. Perhaps, the Cubs could swap Patterson, Rusch and Mitre for Tori Hunter as well. Lineup ~ SS. Furcal, LF. Nomar, 1b. Lee, rf. Floyd, 3b. ARam, cf. Hunter, 2b. Cedeno, C. Barrett... That lineup should be top 5, if not top 3, in the NL.