CubsWin

They won't be for long. Piniella has wanted a 12th pitcher for a while now.

I know this is a completely kooky stat especially since he hasn't been playing much lately, but with Pie on the team the Cubs are now 33-18. Without him, they've gone 10-23. With him, 15 games over .500 Without him, 13 under. Usually, I don't believe in coincidences, but its either that or their really is something to the stories about his infectious joy of playing the game and winning. After all, Pie did win a lot of championships in the minors. Is there such a thing as a human good luck charm? This has to be coincidence, and a strange coincidence, at that...

Those were past years. This is this year.[/crossing fingers]

Nice debut for Donaldson at Boise. 2-for-4, 2 runs scored and 2 driven in with a HR and a BB. Good start.

Good gosh almighty he was almost as bad as DeRosa in 2004. And DeRo has clearly shown it's impossible to improve. Ever a bum, always a bum. I know. He's already 24, way to old to get better. Plus, the numbers he put up in '05 in AAA and the majors are clearly wrong. Someone should call whoever compiles the stats and get those corrected.

Well, Ronnie did it again. 2-for-4 with a HR and a BB. That's 20 walks (and just 20 strikeouts) in almost 150 ABs, not to mention his 5th HR and 18th extra base hit. Not bad for a thin, speedy SS.

Here comes Colvin...

I think this is exactly right. Fontenot's play should be the deciding factor. I'm basically with Goony on this. We've seen fast starts from Theriot and others before only to be followed by a pretty long and corrective slump. That may never come for Fontenot, but if it does, and it likely will, if Cedeno is still tearing up AAA, he should be called up. Until such time, Cedeno should remain in AAA. He has only been raking at this level for 67 ABs, so he could use more time to maintain a level of consistency. Cedeno's had 143 ABs in AAA this year. He also had 245 ABs of 921 OPS in '05. I don't what I was looking at. Oh, wait, that was the number of ABs Fontenot had going into today's game. You're right, he does have 143 ABs. Nevertheless, I wouldn't mind seeing him maintain this level of production throughout the summer or at least until Fontenot cools off considerably.

Through 77 games, the Cubs are averaging 3.08 walks per game. That is the highest average since '02 when they averaged 3.61. However, in 2002, the Cubs also averaged 7.82 strikeouts per game, while so far this season the Cubs are only averaging 6.49 Ks. The Cubs are walking just slightly more than they did in their playoff season of 2003 when they averaged 3.04 walks per game. That season they struckout 7.15 times per game. Which means that Gerald Perry has the Cubs strikeout to walk ratio better than it has been at any time in the last 5 seasons. The same can be said for the team's OBP which currently sits at around .331. Is Perry improving the Cubs offense, making them more patient, selective and effective?

I think this is exactly right. Fontenot's play should be the deciding factor. I'm basically with Goony on this. We've seen fast starts from Theriot and others before only to be followed by a pretty long and corrective slump. That may never come for Fontenot, but if it does, and it likely will, if Cedeno is still tearing up AAA, he should be called up. Until such time, Cedeno should remain in AAA. He has only been raking at this level for 67 ABs, so he could use more time to maintain a level of consistency.

Just rumor...at this point. I'll believe it when I see it.

Anyone else who has ever wore a Cubs uniform. Just thought I would move this thread along a bit...

Ironically, Barrett did.

Unless Bowen is able to maintain his production from the right side against lefties this season and the Cubs platoon him with someone who is good against righties, this trade looks to hurt the Cubs in the short term and perhaps the long term as well. I believe that trading someone who is a flashpoint for confrontation amongst a tight knit group of 25 guys can make a difference in how those players perform as a team. These are human beings who are playing these games, after all, not probability machines who produce at certain levels no matter what the conditions are. Can it make a big enough difference to counter the disparity in Barrett's and Bowen's production? I doubt it. While it doesn't seem very likely to me that this trade will help the Cubs win more games this season. It's possible that it could, but that would take the Cubs being dead on right with their scouting report of Bowen and finding his platoon partner Soto and having him perform well at the major league level. I sure hope Soto gets called up out of this. Even though he is a right-handed batter, he has been hitting right-handed pitching this season at a .333/.409/.586/.995 clip in 111 ABs in AAA. At least we would have that to be excited about. I also hope that the Cubs are right and that Bowen continues the growth as a hitter that he has shown this year and last. I'm just not very hopeful that he will do that to the extent that he will ever match Barrett offensively.

I find your "Good Luck Chicago" signature terrifically appropriate as a response to your trade idea.

Theriot has shown that the more he plays the worse he gets. He's been awful for the past week. His May wasn't any better than Izturis's May. Neither player is an everyday shortstop. Each is capable of having semi decent stretches. I think the only hope is to see if Lou can have the magic touch in terms of who he uses. That's a bunch of malarky. Has he been slumping? Yes. Does that mean that he will continue to get worse the more he plays? No. If you were just being colorful in your language then, fine, but otherwise, that's an incredibly unfair and inaccurate statement. The slump he has been in lately has been a bad one, but it doesn't completely discount the rather excellent 200 ABs that came before it. That said, do I want him to be the Cubs starting 2B of the future? No. I think EPatt can be that, if he can handle it defensively, and if not EPatt then DeRosa can do a better job holding it down with Theriot being the supersub until someone better can be produced. Theriot had a nice start to 2007. But look at his May, it's no better than Izturis's and I believe the OBP is even worse. He's been bad for a week. He is not an everyday guy. He's a utility player. Utility players that play everyday see their numbers decline. I acknowledged that he is slumping and that I would like him to fill the super sub role as there are others in the Cubs organization that are better than Theriot and should be starting. But none of what you wrote in your response justifies your statement that "the more Theriot plays the worse he gets". He's in a slump. Slumps end. Whatever. It's a small point.

Theriot has shown that the more he plays the worse he gets. He's been awful for the past week. His May wasn't any better than Izturis's May. Neither player is an everyday shortstop. Each is capable of having semi decent stretches. I think the only hope is to see if Lou can have the magic touch in terms of who he uses. That's a bunch of malarky. Has he been slumping? Yes. Does that mean that he will continue to get worse the more he plays? No. If you were just being colorful in your language then, fine, but otherwise, that's an incredibly unfair and inaccurate statement. The slump he has been in lately has been a bad one, but it doesn't completely discount the rather excellent 200 ABs that came before it. That said, do I want him to be the Cubs starting 2B of the future? No. I think EPatt can be that, if he can handle it defensively, and if not EPatt then DeRosa can do a better job holding it down with Theriot being the supersub until someone better can be produced.

The Cubs have a black hole at SS this year. Last in the NL with an OPS of 555. And before you say Theriot has turned that around, his OPS at SS is 474. Fontenot doesn't play SS. Neither is "good enough" to make this team better. They are 13th in RF and 12th at catcher. The other positions are middle of the road or near the top. The best way to improve this team is to improve the production they get at SS, RF and C. Since it's going to be impossible to improve at C, the choice is finding a real RF or a real SS. They currently do not have either. There is a chance that when all is said and done that a platoon of Floyd and a revitalized Murton will put them at least to middle of the road at RF. As for SS, they basically have zero chance of getting respectable production out of the group they currently have in the fold. Excellently put. Agree on all counts. That's why I'm for getting Tejada (or any other large upgrade) depending on what the player cost is, of course. And for those that are concerned that Tejada is declining, while you may be right, so what? How much and how quickly is he declining and from what height? When you ask yourself those all important questions, he is still a way better option than anything the Cubs have currently or could realistically hope to acquire which begs the question how realistic is it that the Cubs could acquire Tejada. I think its clear that the Cubs should go after him. What is unclear is can they get him...

Ah dont mind him. We have a history. He is still upset about the CP thing. Hopefully he will grow up soon. Until then, i just let everything he says roll down my back. We are all passionate Cub fans and have differing opinions on things but want the same result. But ty for the thought though. Your welcome, but the same holds true for you and all of us. See bolded section... All's I'm sayin' is your point would have been made so much stronger without it.

So plate discipline still means that he isn't swinging at pitches he can't hit well, right? If so, then my original question stands, why all the concern about Vitters plate discipline? A walk gets you on base 100% of the time, where contact is a hit 35% of time? (totally made up number). He might be able to hit a ball three feet out of the zone, but there's a reason that only a handful of guys have made a successful career out of doing that. Of course, if he can make solid contact on those pitches, then I'm all for it. He won't be able to pull an ichiro though, because he has no wheels. A good point and that helps me understand what Meph was saying, thanks. But it should be noted that if Vitters (or anyone) is making solid contact on a ball that others might not or should not swing at, then we should also factor in the possiblity of extra bases and the ability for that hit, even if it is just a single, to drive in a runner on second or third which a walk can only accomplish with the bases loaded. I agree that, if what Meph says is true and that BA's ranking Vitters 2nd best in plate discipline doesn't mean that he will take a walk very often, then that will likely result in a lower OBP, but it may also result in more RBI and more TB. Not saying that he shouldn't necessarily be more selective at the plate, just that those factors should be included in the discussion as a part of the larger picture.

I really think you guys are selling Hoffpauir's ability short 312/350/889 isnt terrible for AAA. Was 268/362/956 last year in AA. Would like higher OPS, but he hasnt shown lots of pop...more of a line drive hitter. Maybe it takes another throw in or another team involved for some hot 3 way...either way i think Atl is the way to go. Come on, IMB!, there is no need to ridicule sunnydoo for putting forth this trade idea, is there? It's enough to call it a very unrealistic idea. Hoffpauir is not a prospect. The Braves will simply move Saltalamachia to 1B if/when Thorman proves unworthy. They have no need to trade him. It is going to take a lot to get him. Certainly a lot more than a 27 year old AAA 1B with decent numbers, a reliever and a B-list pitching prospect. I'm all for trading for a better catcher. Barrett has been brutal often this season, but he has a track record of being much better than he has in the first two months of this season. I think he will pick things up. That said, if the Cubs can move him and get someone better, I'd do it in a heartbeat assuming the player cost isn't outrageous. Keep in mind, the Cubs have a catching prospect of their own performing incredibly well right now in AAA. Geovany Soto has been hot all year long. He needs to keep it up, but if he can, he becomes a viable option for to take over for Blanco next season and even compete for a starting role. Defensively, he is supposed to be sound with a good arm and good game calling abilities. And offensively, he has put up good OBPs the last 3 years running while giving us reason to believe that he may be taking his bat to the next level this season. He is only 24, and won't turn 25 til next January. I'm keeping my eye on Soto.

That was halfway through tonight's game. Up to the millisecond line: .326/.408/.465/.873 Hey, hey, don't inflate his numbers! Official MLB stats have him at .326/.400/.465/.865. Cheater. And, yeah, what do those numbers mean anywho. He's not clutch and can't hit a HR to save his life, so...

So plate discipline still means that he isn't swinging at pitches he can't hit well, right? If so, then my original question stands, why all the concern about Vitters plate discipline?

I know. Pretty outstanding night for Geovany. I've been a fan of his for 3 years now, but I never expected to see numbers like this. Him doing this well actually gives a silver lining to Barrett's sucky performance so far this season. If Barrett and Soto keep up their current trends, the chances of Soto being rightfully considered as a major league starting catcher increase greatly. Come on, Jim. What's the deal? Give Geo a shot.

I'm all for trading up to get any one of the guys mentioned (Wood, Tejada, etc.) as they would most likely provide the biggest improvement right away than any other options. That all depends on the cost in players, of course, but that would have to be option one. I am definitely guilty of giving too many second chances to position prospects that have previously flashed some success, but Cedeno's definitely found it again. Remember how he looked in the 2nd half of '05? .300/.356/.375 in 80 ABs with even better numbers at AAA. At 24, he could just be putting it all together. That said, if given a choice to trade him along with a high level pitching prospect for a more proven commodity, even a declining one like Tejada or Renteria, I'd have to say yes to that. It would provide a 2-3 year window for the Cubs offensively that we have never experienced. With guys like Soriano, Lee, Ramirez anchoring, when you add Tejada or Renteria to that line-up and fill in the blanks with Pie, DeRosa/Theriot, etc. things would never have looked better offensively. Factor in possible contributions from guys like EPatt and Soto and that opportunity would be tough to pass up. Now the question remains, will the Cubs ever be presented with that opportunity and will the player cost be worth it. Getting Tejada or someone of that caliber seems like a long shot to me. Still fun to think about.