WilcoFan

I agree with this guy. I agree with him so much that they should keep Patterson and trade Jay Bruce to the Cubs for Jason Marquis. He'll eat innings for you, dude.

Beyond Fukudome, I have been really impressed with the Cubs' ability to draw walks this year. Its like it took a full year to get the Dustys out of them.

I agree with the person who said "to waste time." But also-I'm not saying you shouldn't express your opinion. I'm saying that it really doesn't serve a purpose to root against a player based on what you think he is likely to do when he has performed above the highest expectations of either him or his backup for most of the season thus far. Like I wrote earlier, I REALLY wish they would have gotten a better player than Theriot in the offseason. I blame Jim Hendry for being stupid and not understanding the value of going after a guy like, for example, Khalil Greene (whether or not he was even available). However, now that the season has started, it doesn't make sense to me to constantly write about the "black hole" that Theriot is in the lineup when he simply hasn't been that thus far. Will he revert to what he was last year? Stats say he probably will, but I would really prefer that he doesn't so I will continue to root for him to succeed and not use every one of his at bats to criticize him for things he hasn't even done yet this season.

Why, are the Cubs planning on putting Ted Lilly in?

You obviously haven't read too many game threads this year. My favorite: the "BE HURT THERIOT" comment(s). To be fair, we aren't complaining about his play to date this season. We are complaining about the likely level of play the rest of the season. Wow-1. complaining about play that hasn't even happened yet. That's an effective strategy. 2. Its something a GM has to do every day on his job. Even Neifi has had stretches where he walloped the ball. I 3. I know everyone's a wannabe GM, but last time I checked, no one on this board was getting paid by the Chicago Cubs to make personnel decisions. Fans in general need to understand their roles a little better-it will do everyone a lot of good. What stupid thinking. Just because somebody isnt in baseball means we cant have our opinions, and our opinions are automatically wrong? So by that logic there are no stupid people in any profession because they are in that profession, right? Actually, that's not even close to what I wrote. My comment has to do with the relevance of those opinions, not the validity. Read the comments again and see what comment I was referring to. I've highlighted them in the quotes.

You obviously haven't read too many game threads this year. My favorite: the "BE HURT THERIOT" comment(s). To be fair, we aren't complaining about his play to date this season. We are complaining about the likely level of play the rest of the season. Wow-complaining about play that hasn't even happened yet. That's an effective strategy. Its something a GM has to do every day on his job. Even Neifi has had stretches where he walloped the ball. I I know everyone's a wannabe GM, but last time I checked, no one on this board was getting paid by the Chicago Cubs to make personnel decisions. Fans in general need to understand their roles a little better-it will do everyone a lot of good. Whatever, we shouldn't talk about anyones play at all then, since none of us is in any position to make any decision. I'm saying making decisions based on play that hasn't happened yet is something that commonly happens and should be encouraged. Otherwise we are just picking players at random and upgrading them to MLB. Wow, did you miss the point. This has nothing to do with commenting on people's current play...it has to do with commenting on their alleged future play. Let me break it down: 1. Theriot is playing. 2. He has been playing well. 3. Regardless of our predictions, the Cubs will either (a.) choose for him to return to the bench or (b.) continue to play SS 4. None of us have any bearing on that decision. 5. If he continues playing at the level he is playing, the Cubs will be successful. 6. If he doesn't, it isn't very likely that Piniella will switch him out anyway, and the Cubs will be worse off for it. 7. Rooting for him to fail is essentially rooting for the team to fail, because his presence in the lineup isn't likely to change. blah blah blah i'll just repost what i said to the other guy Except they were looking at past numbers consistently when evaluating Cedeno. Theriot has never done anything to show that he can be an everyday better-than-replacement-level short stop. And if he is, then he is, its not like we have that many options. Most teams (other than the Yankees and Red Sox) have subpar position players, its part of the game. Probably most of the reason Theriot draws reactionary comments on this site is because lazy Cubs fans that don't pay attention to the team think he's our Eckstein, awesome-scrappy-dappy-do saviour that can do no wrong. The people that look at the numbers know theres more to the story. And this is the important thing: Probably most of the reason Theriot draws reactionary comments on this site is because lazy Cubs fans that don't pay attention to the team think he's our Eckstein, awesome-scrappy-dappy-do saviour that can do no wrong. The people that look at the numbers know theres more to the story. And as I posted earlier-this is a ridiculous overgeneralization. I don't particularly even like Theriot as a player and really wished we would have gotten a better player in the offseason. But now that the season has started, there's really no reason for me to continue to complain about his performance, especially because it has been nothing short of very productive.

That wasn't my post. But I did say some pretty bad things about the Pirates earlier, so I'll accept my one. Anyways, 7-1 now. My bad-I misread it. Sorry about that.

Less-than-half season? Check his 2005. i drew my own conclusion that the Cedeno hate occurred in 2006. stop me if i'm mischaracterizing. 2005 - LOVE HIM 2006 - severe irrational cedeno hate 2007 - severe irrational cedeno hate continues...wallops the ball in the PCL...LOVE HIM no, upon further thought i dont see anything reactionary about that Except they were looking at past numbers consistently when evaluating Cedeno. Theriot has never done anything to show that he can be an everyday better-than-replacement-level short stop. And if he is, then he is, its not like we have that many options. Most teams (other than the Yankees and Red Sox) have subpar position players, its part of the game. Probably most of the reason Theriot draws reactionary comments on this site is because lazy Cubs fans that don't pay attention to the team think he's our Eckstein, awesome-scrappy-dappy-do saviour that can do no wrong. The people that look at the numbers know theres more to the story. Ridiculous overgeneralizations in this thread: Wilcofan: 1 BigSlick: 1

You obviously haven't read too many game threads this year. My favorite: the "BE HURT THERIOT" comment(s). To be fair, we aren't complaining about his play to date this season. We are complaining about the likely level of play the rest of the season. Wow-complaining about play that hasn't even happened yet. That's an effective strategy. Its something a GM has to do every day on his job. Even Neifi has had stretches where he walloped the ball. I I know everyone's a wannabe GM, but last time I checked, no one on this board was getting paid by the Chicago Cubs to make personnel decisions. Fans in general need to understand their roles a little better-it will do everyone a lot of good. Whatever, we shouldn't talk about anyones play at all then, since none of us is in any position to make any decision. I'm saying making decisions based on play that hasn't happened yet is something that commonly happens and should be encouraged. Otherwise we are just picking players at random and upgrading them to MLB. Wow, did you miss the point. This has nothing to do with commenting on people's current play...it has to do with commenting on their alleged future play. Let me break it down: 1. Theriot is playing. 2. He has been playing well. 3. Regardless of our predictions, the Cubs will either (a.) choose for him to return to the bench or (b.) continue to play SS 4. None of us have any bearing on that decision. 5. If he continues playing at the level he is playing, the Cubs will be successful. 6. If he doesn't, it isn't very likely that Piniella will switch him out anyway, and the Cubs will be worse off for it. 7. Rooting for him to fail is essentially rooting for the team to fail, because his presence in the lineup isn't likely to change.

Thank you for telling us how we should be fans. I'm wearing my jersey but not my hat today, is that cool with you? No.

You obviously haven't read too many game threads this year. My favorite: the "BE HURT THERIOT" comment(s). To be fair, we aren't complaining about his play to date this season. We are complaining about the likely level of play the rest of the season. Wow-complaining about play that hasn't even happened yet. That's an effective strategy. Its something a GM has to do every day on his job. Even Neifi has had stretches where he walloped the ball. I I know everyone's a wannabe GM, but last time I checked, no one on this board was getting paid by the Chicago Cubs to make personnel decisions. Fans in general need to understand their roles a little better-it will do everyone a lot of good.

I never once, not even on cubs.com, saw someone root for Cedeno to be injured.

You obviously haven't read too many game threads this year. My favorite: the "BE HURT THERIOT" comment(s). To be fair, we aren't complaining about his play to date this season. We are complaining about the likely level of play the rest of the season. Wow-complaining about play that hasn't even happened yet. That's an effective strategy. People complained about his inclusion in the lineup every day, mischaracterized his performance this year, and done everything other than call him a pedophile. All he's done thus far has been a productive presence in the lineup. I have no idea what he's going to do for the rest of the year-but it might be a good idea to actually be happy with his production thus far and hope he continues this throughout the season, regardless of past performance. He's not going anywhere, so there's really no other option.

You obviously haven't read too many game threads this year. My favorite: the "BE HURT THERIOT" comment(s).

Yeah, boy, that DeRosa sure has been an unreliable, terrible hitter this year. Man, you nailed that one. He's been about as wrong about DeRosa thus far as you have been about Theriot this season.

Maybe so, but the guy was selling Cub merchandise without the organization permission, not to mention alot of fans found it offensive. I mean the vendor said it was his highest selling shirt, which means there are alot of people who didn't find it offensive. But there were prolly as many, or more people who found it offensive, thus they call the Cubs org, and the org decide to confront the vendor, and forced him to stop selling the shirt. I don't found it offensive, a lack of taste, sure, but offensive no. Would I buy it? No. I haven't seen the shirt, but it sounds more like a really bad attempt at making money off being cute/funny than actual racism. Are we talking about the "horry cow" t-shirt? I heard there was one that had Harry Carey with slanted eyes. That is the Horry Cow shirt. And it was offensive, at least to me. It was basically the equivalent to having a big-lipped, Bright white eyed, watermelon eating Sambo on, say, a Derrek Lee shirt. I was amazed that people actually bought it. OK. But do you think the intention of the person who created them was to disparage the race, or was it just a really stupid, bad attempt at humor without thinking of the consequences? Like I said, I didn't even see the shirt or the vendors selling them. I'll be glad if they never see the light of day again. I don't think the intention really matters. The intention of the people who sold Aunt Jemima was to sell as much syrup as possible-it didn't mean their product projected a negative image of African Americans and perpetuated a stereotype which, coupled with other events, shaped the image of all African Americans for 100 years after the Civil War. Warner Brothers produced a number of Bugs Bunny cartoons up until the 1970s that put Bugs into situations with black savages who only ate people and watermelons. Now, of course, the intention of Warner brothers was to be funny. The impact, however, is what matters more. And regardless of the guy's intention (which, I'm sure, was innocuous), the imagery associated with what he put on the shirt was dangerous.

I consider myself pretty statistically inclined, but I just can't see the value in having any young, successful reliever moved into the starting role. Aggregate innings statistics don't really do it for me. Sure, theoretically he'd be pitching more innings, but the necessity of those innings has to be weighed against the necessity of the innings he pitches in relief. Sometimes, aggregate statistics cannot tell you the significance of a player to an individual game, as baseball games are chunked into 9 inning statistical segments. I think a number of factors need to be considered: 1. What would be lost in terms of GAME-TO-GAME production if Marmol was removed from the bullpen? For example, if he were to start (and be as productive a starter as he is a reliever) and win every fifth day, but on 2 out of the 4 other days each day the bullpen (consisting of, theoretically, less quality relievers) blows games, isn't that a net loss in terms of games won for the team? Are all innings of equal relevance to the overall W-L record? (NOTE: This is all theoretical, of course, but it is what needs to be considered) 2. Is the dropoff from Howry (7th)-Marmol (8th) to, for example Wuertz (7th)-Howry (8th) bigger than the dropoff from Marmol-Marquis as a starter? Is Marquis starting over Marmol costing the team more games than if Marmol had to be replaced in the pen? Once again, I think the aggregate needs to be avoided here. Sure, Marmol over more innings would probably have better aggregate stats than Marquis. But the significance of those innings to the nine-inning statistical segments known as games is what concerns me.

Maybe so, but the guy was selling Cub merchandise without the organization permission, not to mention alot of fans found it offensive. I mean the vendor said it was his highest selling shirt, which means there are alot of people who didn't find it offensive. But there were prolly as many, or more people who found it offensive, thus they call the Cubs org, and the org decide to confront the vendor, and forced him to stop selling the shirt. I don't found it offensive, a lack of taste, sure, but offensive no. Would I buy it? No. I haven't seen the shirt, but it sounds more like a really bad attempt at making money off being cute/funny than actual racism. Are we talking about the "horry cow" t-shirt? I heard there was one that had Harry Carey with slanted eyes. That is the Horry Cow shirt. And it was offensive, at least to me. It was basically the equivalent to having a big-lipped, Bright white eyed, watermelon eating Sambo on, say, a Derrek Lee shirt. I was amazed that people actually bought it.

I think the source of the concern goes back to Spring Training, where he had trouble with walks. Additionally, in the month of September last year, he had a 5.06 ERA and had more than a couple bad outings. I think the love of Rich Hill by some on this board (which, to a certain extent, is justified) makes those people gravitate to the articles and even individual sentences in articles that they think somehow demonstrate a dislike of their favorite player. This is perfectly natural, but I think there have been plenty of articles, etc., slamming Ted Lilly just as much (if not more-see the number of points made throughout the media over the last few days that bring up his glove-throwing incident in the playoffs last year). I think anyone who has watched Rich Hill, from September of last year to right now, will recognize that he's struggling with his command and the manner in which he approaches hitters. To suggest he be demoted because of this is stupid, and the people who argue for that are dumb. However, to suggest that all is well and he'll be fine without any assistance from the coaches and/or a rededication to the pitching strategies he used when he was successful last year is equally myopic. Yesterday was a solid start in the right direction for Hill, but it has a lot more to do with the manner in which he attacked the hitters (I don't think anyone who was watching the game wasn't deeply concerned after the leadoff walk to McLouth) and a lot less to do with the raw statistical numbers that came of it.

Hoping a player fails so his backup can provide barely a modicum of improvement, instead of actually rooting for a player to continue performing at a level above what either would have been expected to do is stupid.

The Riot has actually been pretty decent lately. Great. He'll manage another good month that'll inflate his season stats and blind the management to how badly he stinks the rest of the season. Way to be a fan.

People keep writing this, and Theriot keeps getting on base (almost a .400 OBP the last two weeks). I guess I haven't really noticed since I'm not a fan of the guy and his scrapiness Ahh, scrapiness and grit. The towel joke of 2008.

People keep writing this, and Theriot keeps getting on base (almost a .400 OBP the last two weeks).

because his control was SOOOO good before he got skipped. Sure.

That's going waaaaaaay too far. If he were writhing in pain I wouldn't have said it. But a knick or ding allowing someone else to get in there wouldn't be a bad thing. Because his .357 OBP is really killing this team.