Skyballer

No, all of you do. I didn't even see this. You can't be serious. Is this a joke poster? Yes, but I wouldn't call myself dumb either, but yes this is definitely a joke. So you... are joking? yes. but only about that post

2006 WHIP Zambrano: 1.29 Marshall: 1.52 Career WHIP Zambrano: 1.28 Marshall: 1.44 Marshall still holds the edge for 2007 based on a few nice starts, but that margin is closing fast and will probably disappear within the next 2 starts Still, Z led the league in walks. Doesn't say much for him and those whip is mostly hits for Marshall and walks for Z. Z's control doesn't look to improve but Marshall's "stuff" does. And even if Zambrano doesn't improve his control, he's still a better pitcher than Marshall. Even with Zambrano's control issues, he's still had those awesome seasons. Even with what you call great control by Marshall, his best would be the worst full season Zambrano has seen in 5 years! And when Marshall has those 5 years of experience we'll see whose better. All we're doing now is debating without fair statistical comparison. But in a lot of ways we are. We can compare each player to the other at the same age. When Zambrano was Marshall's age, he was dominating major league hitters. I'm trying to take you seriously, but it's laughable to think Marshall is now or ever will reach the level of pitching that Zambrano has achieved. I'm not asking you to agree with me i'm just giving my opinion, and on paper Marshall deserves all star more than Z. Well, Zambrano may not have deserved the ASG. That's debateable. But Marshall's 8 starts of 3.50 ERA doesn't make him all-star worthy in any shape or form...and in now way makes him a better pitcher now, in the past, or in the future than Zambrano. If you were using hyperbole to state your love for Marshall, you should have dropped the inane arguments a long time ago. Because if you think Marshall really is better than Zambrano, I'm having trouble wondering if this is the first year you've actually followed baseball. No, it's not.

No, all of you do. I didn't even see this. You can't be serious. Is this a joke poster? Yes, but I wouldn't call myself dumb either, but yes this is definitely a joke.

I wouldn't pretend that, but he's definitely got a solid chance of outperforming what the Cubs have gotten out of SS so far this year. Yeah, it's not like we're getting great production out of the SS position anyway. At this point it's worth giving Ronny another shot. I'm all for a shot for Cedeno, I just don't expect much. I expect more than we're getting out of Theriot or Izturis. I'd hold up on the Theriot part, but I won't say that the talent isn't there in both, just Theriot been able to translate talent to well reality. 266/323/346 really isn't a great translation. I like Theriot...but let's not pretend he's really that good; he's not. He's young, he will have growing pains, that is inevitable but Cedeno didn't have growing pains he just plain sucked. Let me get this straight....Cedeno who is 27 is experiencing growing pains while Cedeno who played in the majors last season at only 22 just sucked. Would you like to guess what Theriot was doing when he was 22? How about hitting .252/335/313 in the midwest league. So, if Cedeno sucked at 22, Theriot was sub-suckage. You might want to quit now. What is Cedeno's career ML BA? Not Good. What does that have to do with anything? Theriot wasn't even good enough to be in AAA when he he was Cedeno's age. Listen, it's obvious you like scrappy players like Murt and Theriot, but you're making some pretty ridiculous arguments. Theriot at 27 gets time for growing pains while the 24 year old Cedeno just sucks? Wow 3 year diff. you got alot going for you there.

No, all of you do.

Again, my opinion :!:

Ok. Did you miss my point? Theriot is 27 years old. When he was the same age as Cedeno, he was plying his trade in single A. Cedeno was 23 last season when you said he sucked, yet Theriot is just having growing pains. If anything, the opposite is true. Theriot at 27 is likely at his peak, since most players begin their peak at 27. His peak is below average. Cedeno didn't perform last year. That is true, but he was 23 years old. What Cedeno is hitting at AAA, Theriot hasn't approached at any level. So, if Theriot is experiencing growing pains, then Cedeno is too. Are you really this dense, or do you just get a hard on for a player and can't see the truth? They have relatively the same ML experience.

2006 WHIP Zambrano: 1.29 Marshall: 1.52 Career WHIP Zambrano: 1.28 Marshall: 1.44 Marshall still holds the edge for 2007 based on a few nice starts, but that margin is closing fast and will probably disappear within the next 2 starts Still, Z led the league in walks. Doesn't say much for him and those whip is mostly hits for Marshall and walks for Z. Z's control doesn't look to improve but Marshall's "stuff" does. And even if Zambrano doesn't improve his control, he's still a better pitcher than Marshall. Even with Zambrano's control issues, he's still had those awesome seasons. Even with what you call great control by Marshall, his best would be the worst full season Zambrano has seen in 5 years! And when Marshall has those 5 years of experience we'll see whose better. All we're doing now is debating without fair statistical comparison. But in a lot of ways we are. We can compare each player to the other at the same age. When Zambrano was Marshall's age, he was dominating major league hitters. I'm trying to take you seriously, but it's laughable to think Marshall is now or ever will reach the level of pitching that Zambrano has achieved. I'm not asking you to agree with me i'm just giving my opinion, and on paper Marshall deserves all star more than Z.

I fancy myself a patient person for the most part. I'm trying real hard here, Ringo. No one said you had to join this argument. no one said you had to make a bunch of posts that don't make sense They do make sense and posting i my right and choice it's not annoying me.

I fancy myself a patient person for the most part. I'm trying real hard here, Ringo. No one said you had to join this argument.

2006 WHIP Zambrano: 1.29 Marshall: 1.52 Career WHIP Zambrano: 1.28 Marshall: 1.44 Marshall still holds the edge for 2007 based on a few nice starts, but that margin is closing fast and will probably disappear within the next 2 starts Still, Z led the league in walks. Doesn't say much for him and those whip is mostly hits for Marshall and walks for Z. Z's control doesn't look to improve but Marshall's "stuff" does. And even if Zambrano doesn't improve his control, he's still a better pitcher than Marshall. Even with Zambrano's control issues, he's still had those awesome seasons. Even with what you call great control by Marshall, his best would be the worst full season Zambrano has seen in 5 years! And when Marshall has those 5 years of experience we'll see whose better. All we're doing now is debating without fair statistical comparison.

I wouldn't pretend that, but he's definitely got a solid chance of outperforming what the Cubs have gotten out of SS so far this year. Yeah, it's not like we're getting great production out of the SS position anyway. At this point it's worth giving Ronny another shot. I'm all for a shot for Cedeno, I just don't expect much. I expect more than we're getting out of Theriot or Izturis. I'd hold up on the Theriot part, but I won't say that the talent isn't there in both, just Theriot been able to translate talent to well reality. 266/323/346 really isn't a great translation. I like Theriot...but let's not pretend he's really that good; he's not. He's young, he will have growing pains, that is inevitable but Cedeno didn't have growing pains he just plain sucked. Let me get this straight....Cedeno who is 27 is experiencing growing pains while Cedeno who played in the majors last season at only 22 just sucked. Would you like to guess what Theriot was doing when he was 22? How about hitting .252/335/313 in the midwest league. So, if Cedeno sucked at 22, Theriot was sub-suckage. You might want to quit now. What is Cedeno's career ML BA? Not Good.

2006 WHIP Zambrano: 1.29 Marshall: 1.52 Career WHIP Zambrano: 1.28 Marshall: 1.44 Marshall still holds the edge for 2007 based on a few nice starts, but that margin is closing fast and will probably disappear within the next 2 starts Still, Z led the league in walks. Doesn't say much for him and those whip is mostly hits for Marshall and walks for Z. Z's control doesn't look to improve but Marshall's "stuff" does.

I wouldn't pretend that, but he's definitely got a solid chance of outperforming what the Cubs have gotten out of SS so far this year. Yeah, it's not like we're getting great production out of the SS position anyway. At this point it's worth giving Ronny another shot. I'm all for a shot for Cedeno, I just don't expect much. I expect more than we're getting out of Theriot or Izturis. I'd hold up on the Theriot part, but I won't say that the talent isn't there in both, just Theriot been able to translate talent to well reality. 266/323/346 really isn't a great translation. I like Theriot...but let's not pretend he's really that good; he's not. He's young, he will have growing pains, that is inevitable but Cedeno didn't have growing pains he just plain sucked.

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season Not if Marshall does what he is capable of. If they both do what they are capable of, Zambrano will easily outperform Marshall. maybe. no, easily They're both capable of being aces. Marshall is capable of being Ted Lilly. Zambrano is capable of being one of the top five pitchers in the game. It's not even close. Lilly will never be an ace, Marshall might. Still Control is very important and Z doesn't posses it.

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season Not if Marshall does what he is capable of. If they both do what they are capable of, Zambrano will easily outperform Marshall. maybe. no, easily They're both capable of being aces.

I wouldn't pretend that, but he's definitely got a solid chance of outperforming what the Cubs have gotten out of SS so far this year. Yeah, it's not like we're getting great production out of the SS position anyway. At this point it's worth giving Ronny another shot. I'm all for a shot for Cedeno, I just don't expect much. I expect more than we're getting out of Theriot or Izturis. I'd hold up on the Theriot part, but I won't say that the talent isn't there in both, just Theriot been able to translate talent to well reality.

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season Not if Marshall does what he is capable of. If they both do what they are capable of, Zambrano will easily outperform Marshall. maybe.

and they're about 1 start away from Zambrano having superior statistics again this season Not if Marshall does what he is capable of.

Unless it's consistently good, it doesn't mean a damn thing. Agreed. But Marshall is consistently good.

I wouldn't pretend that, but he's definitely got a solid chance of outperforming what the Cubs have gotten out of SS so far this year. Yeah, it's not like we're getting great production out of the SS position anyway. At this point it's worth giving Ronny another shot. I'm all for a shot for Cedeno, I just don't expect much.

Because the pitching in AAA absolutely SUCKS. Seems like most teams anymore put their best pitching prospects in AA, and when they're ready, promote them straight to the bigs. Not an absolute rule, of course, but it's happening much more frequently than in the past. The net effect is that the quality of AAA pitching is significantly diluted. Look at the Cubs recent young pitching promotions as one example. For all practical purposes, Sean Marshall, Carlos Marmol, and Billy Petrick made the jump straight from AA. Only Rich Hill and Mike Wuertz saw significant AAA time in the minors. And look at the Cubs minor league rosters right now. Until Sean Gallagher's recent cup of coffee in Chicago, for which he earned a roundabout promotion from Knoxville to Des Moines, the Iowa staff "featured" the likes of Les Walrond, John Webb, Ryan O'Malley, JR Mathes and Ben Howard; yikes. Meanwhile, AA has had Sean Gallagher, Donnie Veal, Billy Petrick and Mark Holliman, amongst others. This is a good point. The PCL has been a huge hitters league this season (the 8th best hitting team in the PCL has a better OPS than the 2nd best team in the majors, and that is with only 16 teams to choose from rather than 30 like MLB). Cedeno absolutely kills bad pitching-he has the swing to hit mistakes very hard. It's just the good pitchers who know how to pitch to his weaknesses that can get him out consistently. I still think he should get a shot, but that's a big warning sign to me. Good point, I think he should get a shot but I don't anticipate him being a star.

I've never left early.

Marshall does not deserve it over Z. Marshall is better skill wise and stat wise hah, you must be out of your mind...do you really think marshall has better skills than Z? Marshall is way more consistent and and has way more control, something z seemingly can't buy Marshall has been in the majors for about a year-4/5 of a season last year, and 1/5 of a season this year. Only the 1/5 of the season this year has been good-I'm not sure how you can call him consistent yet. Z is the only pitcher in the major leagues to be in the top 15 of ERA every year for the last 4-how much more consistent can you get than that? With the way he's pitching lately, he could make it 5 in a row. i didn't say marshall was consistent i said he's more consistent than z And like I said, Z has been one of the most consistent pitchers in the major leagues the last 4 years. He gives you almost the same production every single year. except this one i suppose

If we had two Matt Murtons and two Sean Marshalls, I would trade all four for Saltalamacchia. That would be ridiculous, Murton is patient at the plate and hits alot of doubles which will turn into homers, he also is a smart baserunner, not fast but smart. Marchall's curve is very good and he can hit a dime 60 feat away, his control is astounding. I won't address the other points (although I would take minor issue with some of them) but Murton is not a particularly smart baserunner. For example, he stopped at 3rd base when he could have scored easily for no real reason at all, and then got stranded there 4-5 times this year (including the game where he stopped at 3rd on a single that should have scored him, then a wild pitch should have scored him, but he just stood there and watched it). he has to listen Mike quade, something that is very hard to do, Quade sucks, he holds everyone You must have been sitting behind me last Monday night against the Rockies. Fontenot doubled and Lee followed up with a single. Fontenot was held at 3rd. The guy behind me went ballistic. It would have been a close play, but I'd much rather have Ramirez up with 2 men in scoring position. Quade has done fine this year. I would never want to be a 3rd base coach, every move is second guessed. If you hold a runner, some are upset you didn't send him. If you send him and the runner is thrown out, people are mad you sent them. It is truly a lose-lose situation. i didn't see the play but fontenot can run so more often than not i'd send him,, how about the sac fly that was a really hard play and fontenot made it, he can flat out run.