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I'm not sure there is any mortgaging the future here. The worst part is the loss of Moore's trade value, but neither Moore or Cherry had much future with the team whatsoever. Here's another thought-is Hendry just trying to clear 40 man space now? That's my assumption. But why? There's been talk about Kevin Hart being called up when the rosters expand. I'm guessing this opens up a spot on the 40-man for him. There was already a spot on the 40 man for him (the one Rapada opened up yesterday (Coats was the spot that went to Monroe)). I do find it strange that the Cubs have taken off Dopirak, Coats, Rapada, Cherry, and Moore now, and have replaced them mostly with people whose contracts expire at the end of the year. There will be plenty of spots now on the 40 man come November. I do agree that these two should have been traded for at least like a middle IF prospect that could be used as the backup MIF next year at the mininum. This is just a waste of their value.

I'm not sure there is any mortgaging the future here. The worst part is the loss of Moore's trade value, but neither Moore or Cherry had much future with the team whatsoever. Here's another thought-is Hendry just trying to clear 40 man space now?

Basically for that one spot start against St. Louis during the DH in a couple weeks, at least that's the assumption.

For the CUBS this year...... 12 times in 132 games. (9.09%) Thans Fred. So less than 10 percent of the time. And from glancing over the game logs, there were only 7 save situations out of those 12, and 3 of those were 3 run leads. So that situation just doesn't happen all that often, and from just a glace it looks like Dempster hasn't blown a single save in that type of situation.

Uh-sorry, can't defend this move. If it was just Cherry, I wouldn't care. I don't think Moore's value is all that high, but it's higher than this.

So you want Dempster going 2 innings last night in a tie game and Marmol coming in to face the 9-1-2 hitters with a 2 run lead? I'd want my best relief pitcher pitching the ninth (and eight inning if necessary). Marmol has a 1.47 ERA and threw 22 strikes out of 29 pitches last night. Dempster has a 3.29 ERA and only threw 9 strikes out of 21 pitches. He doesn't have the control or strike out enough guys to be a good closer. A so-called closer walking a guy with the bases loaded - that's ridiculous. I don't care how many cheap saves he gets. That ground ball goes a few more feet to ARam's left and the Brewers win the game. I think you're just defending him because you like his first name. You'd be wasting his value. Your best reliever should pitch in the tighest of spots. That is mostly in the 6th, 7th, or 8th, when the starting pitcher or middle reliever gets in trouble and you need to get through the heart of the order. The closer starts almost all his innings with nobody on, so you can afford to give up a runner. When a guy comes in during the 8th with men on and nobody out, you need your stud reliever. If Marshall goes eight innings today and runs out of gas with the Cubs up by one, Lou better use Marmol instead of Dempster. I hope not. Marmol shouldn't pitch today after pitching 2 innings yesterday. And yes, that is the one situation where the closer being the most dominant pitcher is a good thing. How many times does a starter go 8 full innings anymore though? Not very often.

A friend and I did the Big 10-SEC debate a few months ago. I'm an ND fan who has spent more time around the Big 10 than any other conference, and he is an SEC fan his whole life. We ranked both conferences and took 11 teams from each (for the SEC we knocked out I think the 7th ranked team, as close to the middle as we could get). We then compared accomplishments-who has been the better team over that time? When we finished hashing it out, we found it was a complete push. The SEC had a little better 3rd-5th teams over that time period, and the Big 10 was better in the 7-10 range. The other matchups were pushes. The results certainly surprised my friend (who ended up agreeing with the results). The SEC might be better this year, but I think it's too early to tell. It probably won't be known until after the bowl games.

107 pitches isn't that high though. Especially for a left-handed veteran like Lilly, that doesn't put much stress on his arm. You're talking about a few weeks ago? One 120+ pitch outing for a guy like Lilly is not going to take much of a toll. It's concerning if they pitch him 115+ regularly, but Lou doesn't do that.

Or maybe he should wear them... Anyway, I specifically went back through this thread to make sure that someone made this joke. I feel much better now that I know someone did. How did they give Monroe a double there? I know they don't give errors when guys lose the ball in the sun and it falls to the ground. But that actually hit his glove, that's got to be an error. It hit his glove when he raised it to protect his head because he had no idea where the ball was. If you don't call an error when the guy lets a popup fall 3 feet from him, I don't think you can call an error there either. Hart had absolutely no idea where it was. He knew where it was, he tracked it until the last second. The glove was up before he lost it, unless you really think he just magically threw up his glove and the ball found it. If Murton pulls that he'd get ripped to shreds. That's an error. If that game is played in Milwaukee they aren't giving the hitter a gift double. Of course if Murton did it he would get ripped to shreds, just like when Jacque lost those 2-3 balls in the lights he got ripped to shreds. That doesn't mean it is automatically scored as an error (as much as I think it should-I think all those balls that are lost in the lights and which drop a few feet away from fielder should be errors, but that's not how they are scored) I don't think we're going to agree on this. You think he saw the ball and that he just missed the catch. I think he saw the ball off of the bat and ran to where the ball would likely go, and then lost it and put his glove up in self-defense because he had no idea where it was. If it was a try at a catch, it certainly wasn't a very good one.

Marmol has some outings where his control simply isn't there. As a reliever, you can get a couple outs out of him and pull him. As a starter, he'd be prone to the big inning sometime during the outing. Plus, his fastball has extra velocity as a reliever, which turns it from a good pitch into a dominant pitch. He doesn't really have a good third pitch that he can throw. Marmol simply can be a much better reliever than starter. He possibly could grow into an average to slightly above average starter, but then what's more important-a great reliever or an average starter?

Or maybe he should wear them... Anyway, I specifically went back through this thread to make sure that someone made this joke. I feel much better now that I know someone did. How did they give Monroe a double there? I know they don't give errors when guys lose the ball in the sun and it falls to the ground. But that actually hit his glove, that's got to be an error. It hit his glove when he raised it to protect his head because he had no idea where the ball was. If you don't call an error when the guy lets a popup fall 3 feet from him, I don't think you can call an error there either. Hart had absolutely no idea where it was.

Even before this year, the Cubs organization said that he would be a future closer. They used him in a starting role at Iowa because there were starting spots available, but he is staying in the bullpen.

The Cubs cannot keep Soto in the minors. He is out of options, so he will either be traded or in the majors.

Lee looks like baseball players used to look - they have a peak year or two and then their avg years. That was before "enhancements" changed the patterns and the fans' perceptions. OK. Well that sucks. I have noticed that Lee's HR power is pretty much completely gone now. That's obvious of course, but it causes me no end of angst and frustration. Lee's power is no less gone than anybody else on the team. He has 3 times the number of home runs as anybody else since the Break. He'll probably end up with 12-13 home runs on the second half, which is consistent with Lee with just about every year but 2005. His first half was way down on the power though (which might have been working up the wrist strength), but he has shown some the last month and a half.

This backs up the talk last week that the Cubs were looking for another pitcher as a long relief/spot starter. Trachsel is only signed through the rest of this year. Although it sounds like the Cubs are now satisfied with their internal options to make that start in September, so it's more and more likely that no move will be made.

Wandy Home: 2.54 ERA Road: 7.80 ERA Cubs against him this year In Chicago: 3.1 IP, 9 H, 7 R, 7 ER, 3 HR, 2 K/2 BB In Houston: 8.0 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 0 HR, 9 K/2 BB Boy, am I glad this game is in Chicago today. Hopefully the Cubs can get to him like they did last time in Chicago.

True, but if the Cubs starting staff remains the same, I'm not sure how much more. Soto wouldn't have as many throwing errors, but even when Kendall has a quick release and a good throw it's still not in time because most of the Cubs starters cannot hold anybody on. I do hope Soto is the Cubs starting C next season. Kendall has been a great acquisition, and as I posted in the other thread I'm worried about the Iowa inflation this year, but even with those concerns I still think you have to throw Soto out there instead of signing Kendall and hoping these last 2 months haven't just been one great last stretch of a ballplayer with a change of scenery.

I don't think they put him on because they were worried about the home run (although that is a concern). I think they were worried about a single from one of the 2 best Brewers hitters, and also happened to be a left-hander which Dempster struggles with. The dropoff from Fielder to their next best option against Dempster, Jenkins, is still a decently large one. If the Brewers do keep Hart and Mench in as Yost did, that's an absolutely massive difference (not only are they inferior hitters, but Dempster has a .654 OPS against left-handers and a .460 against right-handers). As for doubles being easier to hit than homeruns, that's true. However, most doubles hit in Wrigley Field are not going to score Prince from 1st base.

Detroit is speculating that it's Rapada. "Leyland stopped short of disclosing the traded player, but speculation is centered on Clay Rapada, who is 6-2 with a 3.74 ERA at Triple-A Iowa." link Rapada is on the 40-man, which means he'd have to clear waivers to be traded. Pretty doubtful that a cheap lefty reliever with decent numbers makes it through waivers. Which is why they made it a PTBNL deal so that they could trade them Rapada after the year. Personally, if it's a Cubs left-hander currently on the 40 man roster like Leyland said, then I don't really care if it is Eyre, Ohman, Cotts, or Rapada. They each have a small bit of value, but none of them have particularly great value now or in the future. And Monroe has more value? I don't really see it. I'm not against this trade I just don't really see much value in Monroe. I know he's hit LHP well this year but he's a career .277 hitter against LHP. I guess he gives the Cubs some "versitility"*. They seem to really covit versital players. * Versitility- ability to play more than one position. His career OPS against left-handers is .821. Jones's career OPS against left-handers is .632. That will be most of Monroe's value right there with that 190 point difference. The rest of his value will be in a right-handed pinch-hitting option. Since the Cubs have so many OF's that do not hit left-handers well (Jones, Floyd, Pie, Ward), it is really nice to have two options off of the bench that can pinch-hit for one of those OF's in a key situation, which allows one of them to pinch-hit for Jones for example when the team goes to a left-hander late and the other one can pinch-hit for the pitcher during the game. So does Monroe provide a ton of value? Maybe not, but the addition of him in the lineup instead of Jones against LHP will help the team in its struggles against that side of the plate. I think looking at his carrer OPS is a little decieving. In addition, I don't see him replacing Jones at all. He had two seasons where his OPS against LHP was above .900, but for the most part he's been in the .700 range, still better than JJ, but really not that good at all. In fact, I'd would say the difference in improvement is so small that over the course of the next 6 weeks we're likely to see no difference at all. However, his SLG is certianly better than Jones. At the same time, I have to ask, who will he be replacing? You seem to think it's Jones. I suspect it's Murton. After all it doesn't really make much sense b/c Jones is a lefty and Monroe is a righty. I think when Soriano comes back we'll see an OF of Soriano, Jones, Monroe/Floyd. If you compare him to Murton v LHP His numbers just don't stack up. Murton has an AVE, OBP, and OPS atvantage. So, I don't really see what value Monroe brings to the Cubs. I suppose if he replaces Jones @ lefties that would be great, but I doubt that will happen. Looks like Monroe wasn't replacing Jones after all. Will wonders never cease? Yeah, I figured this one was coming :D. The early returns would certainly indicate that I was wrong, and it makes the trade a lot less valuable as a result.

Yeah, that's the biggest thing. The Cubs need one of these guys to spot start in a couple weeks. The best way for them to keep their arms stretched out is for them to keep starting, and that's in Tennessee. As for Gallagher helping the Cubs as the long man, there will be plenty of pitchers to eat innings for the Cubs if they need them. When you have 15 pitchers on the squad, there isn't much need for a long man.

I'm not really concerned about Rapada. If the Cubs are committed to keeping Ohman (which it sounds like they are) Rapada has absolutely no future with the team. He's already 26, and he'll be turning 28 and probably a minor league free agent before Ohman's contract runs out. So he has little value with the Cubs, and not a great amount of value on the trade market either.

people got it. you are incorrect. he certainly is. run through the numbers if you'd like. and let me provide this link viewtopic.php?t=43717 So your argument is that Zambrano's hitting makes up for the pitching deficit, huh? Well I took you up on your invitation to run through the numbers. Zambrano has produced 11 runs (8 runs + 5 RBI - 2 HR = 11 RP). Lilly has produced 9 runs (5 runs + 4 RBI - 0 HR = 9 RP). Hill has produced 5 runs (0 runs + 5 RBI - 0 HR = 5 RP). So let's just net those runs produced with the bat off of each guy's earned runs allowed on the mound and see what we get. Lopping off 11 earned runs drops Zambrano's ERA from 4.06 to 3.51. With 9 fewer ER, Lilly's ERA falls from 3.85 to 3.16. 5 fewer ER nudges Hill's ERA from 3.68 to 3.06. I don't agree with that method of determining the impact, but that's not why I'm making this post. Let me just correct a little math: 5 fewer ER's drops Hill's ERA from 3.68 to 3.40 9 fewer ER's drops Lilly's ERA from 3.85 to 3.37 Z's is correct (it actually rounds to 3.50) Again, I'll leave the criticism of the method to others (I think you have a short way of getting a general feel for their offensive production, but you're leaving out where base hits by the pitcher leads to runs later in the inning, which is going to throw your numbers off enough to not make it worthwhile to do it that way). I just wanted to correct those calculations though.

It's too bad Iowa's season isn't another couple weeks longer. Koyie Hill would be an interesting experiment to how much there is a divide between MLB and AAA this season. Koyie is already 3/5 with a double in AAA. To match his MLB production, he just needs 12 more hits in his next 88 at-bats :shock:. My guess is given the opportunity he'd be well above that. Here's Hill's overall AAA line on the season: .331/.368/.489 (133 AB's). When one of the worst hitters in MLB can go down and put up an .850+ OPS, I start to become wary of AAA numbers this year (Pie, Cedeno, Fontenot are also examples of players who's conversion is crazy. Your numbers should go down going from AAA to MLB, but not normally nearly as much as those 4 have).

Oh God. Are you seriously citing a player's facial expressions now?? Seriously?? Oh God. Yes I am. Seriously. Only a fool would think that something's not wrong with him based on that, and his poor offensive production this year. But don't let me muddy up your pollyannish view of this team, that's everything's just swell. I am impressed with your ability to judge people emotions and feelings based on their expressions. You must be one of the best poker players in mankind, I bet you can just see through people's poker faces. Let me ask you something. Can you tell if Zambrano cares whether he wins or loses? Yes, but Z wears his emotions on his sleeve. Some people are more reserved then that and contain their emotions, but that doesn't mean the emotions are any less strong. For example, Lee's always been like what you describe. Some players like to treat it as a game and go out and have a great time, while other players like to be serious most of the time. Without talking to both types, it's impossible to know which one cares more about winning, if there's any difference at all.

Since it is a proven fact that a vast majority of players do not hit any worse or better in these situations than normal ones. Would it be appropriate to assume that Murton will improve to the norm in these situations. Kind of like it was appropriate to assume that Jones would improve in the 2nd half because he was not nearly as bad as he was in the first half One thing that I find more and more strange as the season has progressed is Murtons complete inability to pinch-hit. Yet Piniella seems to send him up there quite a bit to pinch hit. I havent figured them but I would venture to guess that Murtons numbers as a starter are not really that bad. His pinchhitting numbers probably .3really pull them down. Murton's numbers while in the game as an OF (pretty much only as a starter) .275/.341/.388