Abe Frohman

A left-handed power bat. Would like to see at least 2 more LH forces in the lineup.

A few things.... * True Gritty players don't wear batting gloves. * They sprint to first on a walk. * If he can reach 2nd base before the ball is caught by an infielder, he should get substantial points.

The Rockies have been unbelievable the past month. I am really interested to see how the 8-9 day layoff affects them. I can't figure out how they are so good with the starting pitching they have. No one really stands out statistically - but I guess that you have to consider where they play home games when you look at the numbers.

You never know, Billy. You never know.

OK, I guess I read you wrong. I really need to stop posting from work.... Well, I was wrong then. He was pretty good at the end of 05 (and this September). He was just soooo bad in 06, and I think a lot of that probably had to do with Dusty Baker/Gene Clines. I guess I am being a little hard on Cedeno. I'd love to see him work out. I think if Theriot didn't have such a horrible September, some of you guys would be singing a different tune. When he went to the leadoff spot from August 6-26, he hit around .320 and scored 14 runs. He was seeming to thrive there, and on 8/28 he was hitting .288 with a .351 OB% for the year (that is with roughly a month left to play). Those numbers certainly don't suck.

Theriot broke in as an every day player? When? If he does, I'll be very surprised and pleased. OK, Ronny did have a great September, all 23 ab's of it. He walked once and k'd 6 times (about the norm). His 2 HR's and 7 RBI were good. If he comes out of Spring Training swinging the bat like that, I'm sure he'll stay at SS or 2B.

I never argued that. I said that he may bounce back next year with those numbers, if he can hold the job. Theriot was never in the Major Leagues when he was 23, so we will never know how he would have done. Cedeno was, and he was horrible. That is ok, because Cedeno has that under his belt now - whatever that is worth. The reality (what I AM arguing) is that Ryan Theriot has been a MUCH better shortstop at the Major League level than Ronny Cedeno has been. IF Theriot had been on the Cubs when he was 23, he probably would have been overmatched, like Cedeno was.

Both players are totally different situations. When Theriot was in the lower minors, he was switch hitting - a failed experiment. Ronny is full of potential, I realize that - all I am saying is that you are NOT going back in time to put Theriot on the big league team just so you can prove that Ronny's crappy full season in 2006 would have been better than Theriots, should he have been in the ML's when he was 23. Like I said - we will never know. The reason I doubt it is because Theriot has some idea of plate discipline while Cedeno has none. He had a great season in AAA, and I think that it should help him in the future - but I think they are totally different types of hitters. Cedeno is a lot like Shawon Dunston - he has speed, a little pop, and might be a good Major League SS, but he is not going to take a walk, and probably won't have an OB% over .300, unless he hits over .300 - which is a pipedream. Theriot has some plate discipline, and it wouldn't shock me to see him bounce back with a .280/.350 type season with a lot of runs scored and 30+ stolen bases - if he can hold on to the starting SS job. Basically, Cedeno showed me enough in 2006. He has done nothing at the Major League level to show that he is anything but overmatched at the plate. He is a stupid baserunner, and erratic defensively. We are better off with Theriot unless someone else is acquired through trade.

Amen. Do you not read posts in this thread and just post random statments? I read them. Don't agree with all of them, is that OK with you? I agree with CUBZ99, can you deal with that?

Amen. I doubt it. Too bad we'll never know.

Yes, it is. I have been looking all over for the grey one. I have no idea what happened to it. I got a badass Mitchell and Ness 1984 Ryno jersey off ebay for $60 - new. Those things aren't made any more, and it had a $320 tag on it.

For game three, I must have made that tub girl at Hi-tops reload 2 or 3 times. Don't ever underestimate the healing powers of Jaegerbombs and beer. You met tubgirl at hitops??? That had to have been a mess. That website has been trumped by 2girlsonecup. Don't do it.

Hey Vance - is that the jersey?

For game three, I must have made that tub girl at Hi-tops reload 2 or 3 times. Don't ever underestimate the healing powers of Jaegerbombs and beer.

say what? 3.1 IP 7 hits 4 walks 16.20 ERA 3.0 IP 6 hits 2 walks 9.00 ERA which one pitched good enough to win and which one failed? It's too bad I already used up my mulligans.

Yeah, I am pretty accustomed to the way this board works. You do realize that you really don't have to take this quite so personally, right? Fine, whatever. Let me set the record straight so no one gets injured: I believe the Cubs need to tweak the team a little. Yes - we can agree that the offense needs some improving - SS could be better, 2B could be better, and there are unsettled positions in CF and RF that could be improved. We have guys in house who have had "off" years, but it would be nice to be rid of a couple and get a big bat (preferrably LH with power). Pitching can be improved also (I believe it is more important to find another starter of quality than it is to find another SS - Cedeno and Theriot could work). I base all these opinions on the 2007 season. Including the post-season, in which our best three starters were mostly good, but Rich Hill failed. Zambrano and Lilly pitched good enough to win. I am one of those guys who thinks that pitching and defense are the more important parts of the "baseball trinity," but still pretty close to equal. Forgive me for not being clear. I shouldn't try to post while I'm working. I'll bet you are going to be OK, I think you'll make it. This whole thread is kinda all over the place, from Theriot, to Theriot-vs-Cedeno, to Theriot-Murton, etc.... Personally, I think this team really needs a solid LH bat - and the main player I think fits is Bobby Abreu. How much money are the Cubs going to spend? Are they as serious about winning it all as McDonough says? If so, trade Murton and Pie for another Ace and acquire Abreu and Rowand and hope for the best.

You don't think we could use another quality starter? I didn't say anything about getting rid of anyone, and I don't base that on the NLDS exclusively. We lost because we didn't hit.

At least 2? He only really had 2006. If that's your argument, why should Theriot get another shot? Because he helped the team to the playoffs and he didn't suck.

How many shots should he get?

The Cubs lost two games 3-1 and 4-2, and couldn't buy a run against a bad Doug Davis in a game where they needed runs. I think they need to improve the offense. I agree - the Cubs do need to improve their offense. We need more situational hitters with plate discipline. More guys who can draw a walk and are a threat in late/tight games. No doubt. The Cubs also need a better rotation - or they need more consistency out of their starters. Zambrano, even though he won a career high 18 games, also had too many losses and this wasn't a good year for him. Lilly was great, but can we expect the same out of him again? Marquis was too up and down, and Hill is still promising. We need at least one more SOLID starting pitcher.

the cubs starting rotation had the 3rd best era in the majors this year and the offense scored the 18th most runs. why would you go after starting pitching instead of offense? I'm assuming you are not serious because I am sure even you watched the NLDS. You don't think it is important to improve the starting pitching? did you watch the nlds? the cubs scored six runs in three games. I also watched the last month of the season. I was mostly drunk during the NLDS.

the cubs starting rotation had the 3rd best era in the majors this year and the offense scored the 18th most runs. why would you go after starting pitching instead of offense? I'm assuming you are not serious because I am sure even you watched the NLDS. You don't think it is important to improve the starting pitching? OK, so?

Has anyone actually said they would prefer Theriot over a clearly better shortstop like Tejada, Rodriguez, etc? I haven't see that, only that some feel Theriot is a better option than Cedeno right now (including the Cubs organization). I think the Cubs would be much better served spending whatever money they can to get better starting pitching and maybe resolve the OF issue (deal someone and have at least two everyday producers out there). I would think that if $20 million was available to spend, I'd throw it at starting pitching before I would try and land a SS or OF (I used to think Murton wouldn't work in RF, but I am retracting that).

Can someone please explain why Theriot has a "limited ceiling?" Because he is 27 or 28? The arguement seems to be that Ronny Cedeno is the better option - because he is younger? What did he do when the job was his to lose in 2006? He was terrible. He belonged in AAA. What did Cedeno do in the beginning of 2007 when the job was his? He got 2 or 3 hits. He is clueless at the plate. Overmatched. Cedeno has TONS of potential, but so did Gary Scott. So did Mike Harkey. So did quite a few "can't miss" prospects the Cubs have had in their system. Why shouldn't Theriot be the Cubs starting SS in 2008? I am all for playing whoever had the hot hand, like Lou did in 2007. Theriot did a fine job at SS, and I'd be willing to bet next year he'll hit around .280 and score around 90 runs with an OB around .340-.350.

How about factoring in the 2006 season as well - I hardly think that the numbers mean anything considering he hardly played at all in 2007.