Abe Frohman

You are making far too much sense for this discussion.

I'm pretty sure they're talking about the Brian Roberts who stole 50 bases last year and scored 103 runs for a pretty terrible Orioles team.

Personally, I think Murton would be better for the Cubs considering the Cubs had problems with LHP. The answer to that, in my opinion, is to have players who can hit LHP, not necessarily just players that are Left handed. Teahan is a lefty that doesn't hit LHP. Murton is a righty who hits LHP well. Seems to put the Cubs further from where they want to be.

With 15 walks and 101 K's, I don't imagine the A's would be really interested in Colvin - but I'd do that trade in a heartbeat.

Swisher would be nice.

I wouldn't call it blind allegiance, and I do realize that both the Cubs and Theriot can an need to improve. The point I am trying to make is that if the Cubs go into 2008 with Ryan Theriot and Ronny Cedeno as options for starting SS - I think it is obvious that Theriot is the starter. I am not thinking that Theriot or Cedeno will be the Cubs starting SS for an extended time, and I have no problem with Cedeno beating him out for the starting position. I just don't see it happening. What do you realistically expect out of Theriot? I hoped he would do what he really has always done - get on base, score runs, steal bases, and be a situational hitter. Though his OB% was .326, the guy basically walked about as many times as he struck out. He isn't an easy out (most of the time). He hits behind runners, etc. You say he was one of the worst SS in baseball, and I disagree. There were a lot of good SS in the National League, and Theriot was middle of the pack (8th with 80) in runs scored. He was 4th in the NL in SB for SS. The Cubs could definately improve at SS, and Theriot may be more effective playing off the bench and spot starting - but he's the best option the Cubs have right now. If you are considering planning for the future with these two guys - consider age and go with Cedeno, and hope he doesn't kill you with his offensive/defensive play.

I don't know what the chances of Cedeno breaking out and winning the SS job. I'm not sure what to think of Cedeno's improvement in AAA last year. If you look at his numbers, they are almost exactly in line with his production in AAA from 2005, and he still had that terrible 2006 season. I don't know if that means we could expect a lousy 2008 should he start, but he really didn't significantly increase his BB's last year in AAA (30 in 327 plate appearances).

Well, isn't that what he was in 2007?

They won the SEC Championship with a backup QB who had one career start before the game. Good luck. Wager?

would your feelings for Theriot differ had he not gone to LSU? No. Am I saying the same things about Fontenot? Shane Youman? I am a fan of Brad Hawpe, though (except when he's playing the Cubs). I do like to follow ex-LSU players, but I don't think that has anything to do with my opinion on Theriot.

Statistics and reality disagree with that statement. Ronny MAY be better than Theriot, but he is going to have to earn it with his play on the field. There is no doubt that Cedeno is capable of being an exciting force offensively. He showed it briefly in his career and in AAA last season. However, he is going to have to have a strong showing in spring training, and carry it on from day 1 of the 2008 season. I hope he can do it because he has better speed, defensive capabilities, and power. I just think that Theriot brings more to the table than his statistics show. Ronny HAS had several chances, but that sure doesn't mean he won't get more. In his defense, I think Baker should have handled him in a different manner in 2006. Gene Clines obviously didn't help him much either. Theriot, on the other hand, wasn't really given anything. He won the job with his performance. I don't think trading Cedeno is a wise move unless it involves getting a much better SS than the Cubs have now. Arguing that Theriot would have sucked worse than Cedeno had he played for the Cubs when he was 22 is kind of redundant since it never happened and obviously never will. It's like comparing apples to oranges. I think Theriot would not have sucked worse, because he and Ronny are very different hitters. Theriot is more patient and polished, and he was that way when he was younger than 22. I know it has been mentioned before, but earlier in Theriot's MiL career, he unsuccessfully dabbled with switch-hitting - and that is worth consideration. He's a better baserunner than Cedeno and always has been. The Cubs did not have stability at SS going into 2007, but Theriot did a fine job ending that problem - especially for a first year player. If the Cubs don't upgrade at SS, I think we will be OK in 2008 with Theriot and Cedeno. Granted we land the impact bat in RF/CF.

I can't wait for the LSU/Ohio State matchup. You don't get to the MNC two years in a row without being badass. FWIW, LSU is a great team. They played a lot more convincingly earlier in the season when they weren't racked with injuries to key players like Dorsey, but they found ways to win and their only two losses were both in triple overtime. LSU WITH Glenn Dorsey has a much better defense than without. He makes that much of a difference. Arkansas always plays LSU to the wire and McFadden is unbelievable. That was a TOUGH loss. LSU is deep at a lot of key positions, and it should be noted that they won the SEC Championship with a QB who has only made one start in his career. I'm thinking that Dorsey, Doucet, and Matt Flynn will be ready to go for the MNC game - and LSU will be at full strength. 34-21 LSU.

I'm real excited to see what Soto can do, offensively and defensively. I think it's going to be a fun season in 2008.

If the Cubs have two options at SS in 2008 - Ryan Theriot and Ronnie Cedeno - age has absolutely no relevance to the Cubs winning baseball games. Ryan Theriot is the better player right now. I would be delighted to see Ronny beat him out, because that would mean he was the better player and actually improved his approach at the plate. It was painful watching Cedeno hit in 2006. It was easy to see that he was overmatched and totally unconfident.

Cedeno was 23 that year while Theriot was 27 last year. At 23 Theriot was in A and AA ball. Cedeno has more room to improve and has more potential. That's not to say that he will improve' date=' just that he could. Theriot is what he is and isn't likely to improve much.[/quote'] So what? Theriot played college baseball while Cedeno jumped into professional ball. Are either guys going to be fixtures at SS for the Cubs the next 10 years? Personally, I could care less how old Cedeno is, compared to Theriot. One guy has a clue at the plate, the other doesn't. I realize Cedeno is young. He's too raw. I'll take production over potential any day.

Well, compared to Ronnie Cedeno's 2006 - Theriot was outstanding. .299/.347 in April is below average? June/September were bad. He had a .328 SLG in April and a .675 OPS. Are you expecting power numbers out of him? Theriot is not going to have a very high SLG percentage, but he will score runs. We are comparing Theriot to Cedeno here, and I invite you to take a look at Cedeno's splits from his first year (2006). It ain't pretty. http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=cedenro02&year=2006 Here are the first full seasons for each guy. Who do you think has more potential? Cedeno (2006) 151 534 51 131 18 7 6 41 8 8 17 109 .245 .271 .339 Theriot (2007) 148 537 80 143 30 2 3 45 28 4 49 50 .266 .326 .346

Well, compared to Ronnie Cedeno's 2006 - Theriot was outstanding. .299/.347 in April is below average? June/September were bad.

I know it is not the popular position on this board, but Theriot played SS for the Cubs because he was the best the Cubs had. Theriot really had a nice full first season, and if it weren't for his terrible September maybe he'd be getting some of the respect he deserves around here. I think Ronnie has a good chance to be a solid ML SS, but until he proves it in MLB - he is just too young or undisciplined at the plate. He has much better tools than Theriot defensively, but Theriot was still a better SS than Cedeno has ever been. Theriot scored runs, stole bases, and showed that he could be a spark. It's his job to lose, unless a better SS is acquired via trade.

Per WJBO radio - LSU has been informed that they will be playing for the MNC. Geaux Tigers!

I know Markakis isn't getting traded, but I sure would love to see that guy with the Cubs.

Maybe I just misunderstood you. Not a hard task.

So baseball fans who care if players use/used steroids and other PED's are "stupid" because they care about the history of the game? They're stupid if they think it should make a difference in how they view their sport, especially if they don't apply the same standard to other sports, especially considering that many of the substances abused either weren't against the rules in baseball, or weren't being tested for. It makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE in how I view MLB, not the sport of baseball. Unfortunately, the way MLB and the owners (who did nothing to put restrictions on PED's because the "benefits" put meat in the seats) handled rampant drug abuse indirectly has an affect on the sport of baseball, as Professional baseball players all the way down to High School baseball players are tempted by using drugs so that they can keep up with the standouts who also use. I love the game of baseball. I love the Cubs. I also believe that MLB is corrupt and takes advantage of those who love the game enough to pay the ridiculous prices to watch it professionally. Steriods/PED's are not the only problem with MLB, and I seperate MLB from the game of baseball. The History is affected as the playing field is not level (nor has it ever really been level), and the records are not comparable between eras. It's like apples/oranges if you think about it. One time it was the exclusion of minorities, now it is drugs. We should all care.

That's why some of us love baseball. It's Americana.

So baseball fans who care if players use/used steroids and other PED's are "stupid" because they care about the history of the game?

Lots of souvenirs!