Sammy Sofa

I do and I agree. I think it just comes down to different schools of thought on the issue that aren't going to bend.

look at oakland, the twins, st louis, detroit, & boston as far as 2b & ops. That doesn't support playing an average at best player almost every day on a team shooting to be average at best. Guys like Cedeno and Theriot are not Murton and Hill. They simply don't have the career indicators that support them being successful starters.

Really? I don't mean to take anything away from his daughter's situation (not to mention his whole family's situation), but it seems like a strange thing to retire because for. Also, where was the quote, if he said it? There was no quote. This is based on a post in the other thread about Lee not playing the rest of the season. This isn't any kind of proof, and the guy could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like he has a reason to lie...and besides, it still raises the hypothetical question whether Lee said it or not. It's not stretch to think he'd retire, at least for a while, f his daughter is seriously ill for an extended period of time. Is it really that strange to see him retire over this? If I had his money and one of my kids was seriously ill or injured, I'd take at least an entire season or two off to be with my family, probably more.

I'd still prefer if they traded away the big guns that they get a better IF prospect than Cedeno or Theriot as part of the influx of players. Theriot does nothing for you as a starter on ANY kind of team.

This thread should be bolded, stickied at the top of the page and somehow have fireworks shooting from it. PREACH ON!!! Though I'm also all for throwing Cedeno under anything that keeps him from starting for the Cubs next year.

Oops, that was the second batter.... STILL! Trust me, I was just as stunned actually seeing him strike out the first batter in only three pitches.

Well, that was shockingly un-Dempster-like. Holy crap, is this a winning streak?!?

Your continued attempts to somehow compare Hill and Theriot are completely nonsensical. Again, stop ignoring Theriot's career numbers. They'll tell you a LOT more about him than this tiny burst of power hitting over the last 2-3 weeks.

So did Cedeno last year. I just can't take him seriously, the comparison is too apt. there is a slight difference between cedeno's .731 in 80 ab's last year and ryans .961 in 99 ab's. this guy is the real deal imo and it just took getting playing time in the majors for him to shine. there is no doubt that he is way overachieving now but there are not many (if any) holes in his game imo. he seems to be very solid all the way around. He has NO history of power in the minors. Not even ANY. I'm all for having him on the bench next year as a Neifi! type player, but his power stroke is really a fluke when compared to his minor league numbers. That would be the one major error in his game. I know it looks like he put it all together, but again I'll point to Cedeno last year. Looks can be deceiving. You're so wise, Mr. Owl.

Stop ignoring Theriot's career numbers. I'm not going to tolerate this team getting burned again like they did with Cedeno. I don't like that Dusty seems to be setting up to bring in Dempster.

Yeah, I want him hustling down the line and if he gets winded from that to where it throws off his pitching performance (even if he was the 3rd out), then the problem is his conditioning. Trust me, I'm not worried about him getting "winded." I'm worried about the starting pitcher getting hurt unecessarily and, quite frankly, stupidly over something that's so meaningless and subjective. And to clarify, I'm not talking about like what Z does when he gets an ACTUAL hit. There's a massive difference between trying to stretch out a legitimate hit and bolting down the line for 1st after hitting a lazy dribbler that the hitter only makes base on if the fielder Dunston-izes the ball into the stands.

I don't want to believe it myself, because if that's true this organization is getting dumber by the minute.

Probably a very good utiltiy player. Look at his career minor league career numbers. He's playing WAAAAAAY above his head right now, even more so than Cedeno did at the end of last season and the beginning of this one. The Riot's performance right now is the epitome of "sample size." He's a guy I'd like to have off the bench but not who I want starting on a regular basis if I expect this team to get significantly better any time soon.

I think the Cubs need to sign a top FA pitcher (Schmidt). I think there are cheaper FA position players that could help the Cubs (Durham, C. Wilson). I think the impact bat is going to have to come from a trade. there aren't many pitchers out there either and they are even riskier. I would rather build an 850 run lineup and then worry about pitching. Yeah, but is Soriano going to be a help or a hindrance towards an 850 run lineup? He'd most likely help, but not for what we'd have to pay him. I'd rather sink less money into Trot Nixon and Craig Wilson as platoonmates and slide Murton into a platoon with Jacque in right, which would also give us a big bat off the bench and another decent bat off the bench at any given moment... something we've been sorely missing for a long time. Edit: Of course, that thought is predicated upon viewing Soriano as a LF. If he's a 2B, it could be quite different. Though I do still find myself more inclined to grab Nixon/Wilson and Durham to fill out the holes. I highly doubt Soriano comes to Wrigley if he's not playing 2B. And even so, I'd still love the Cubs to pick up Wilson.

I assure everyone, I am not trying to be crass. I fully understand why Lee would retire if his daughter is seriously ill...I would do the same thing. That's why I'm starting this thread seperately since it was said that Lee himself mentioned he would retire if his daughter has a serious or life-threatening condition. It does bring up the legitimate question of what would the Cubs do in that situation?

Do you want your pitcher bolting like crazy on every easy ground ball he hits when he's up to bat?

I'm not a fan of pitchers who can't handle a 8-0 lead. :evil: Me neither. I think the guy will mature and be able to deal with situations like this as time goes on, but as of right now he is NOT ready to be in the starting rotation from the get-go next year.

What do they gain besides making people "feel better?" It's completely arbritary as to whether or not "hustling" would actually change plays significantly and often enough to alter a team's season or even the game being played at the time. Are you just really, really lazy or something? I know "hustling" and "little things" are often not difference makers, but they absolutely cannot hurt a team. I realize Dunn, Ramirez and, well, Ramirez are who they are, but would it hurt them to run a little harder to first? To show they're teamates that they're giving their all? I don't think I'm that lazy. I simply don't see the issue as something that serious or difference-making as others. I especially don't understand the idea that guys like Jones and Burnitz somehow have something up on Aramis, Manny and Dunn simply because they "hustle."

Why do you think Marshall AND Mateo are ready to step up like that. I think both have a lot of talent and bright futures ahead of them, but I've seem little to show that they could be the 4th and 5th starters next year in a roation that is still "formidable." They're just too raw.

What do they gain besides making people "feel better?" It's completely arbritary as to whether or not "hustling" would actually change plays significantly and often enough to alter a team's season or even the game being played at the time. Are you just really, really lazy or something? I know "hustling" and "little things" are often not difference makers, but they absolutely cannot hurt a team. I realize Dunn, Ramirez and, well, Ramirez are who they are, but would it hurt them to run a little harder to first? To show they're teamates that they're giving their all? Hustling, like aggressive, can hurt a team if it's not applied smartly. Some might call trying to stretch a single into a double a hustle play, but it's only hustle if you're safe. Otherwise it's stupidly running into outs. Baseball is not a balls to the wall sport. Thank you. I couldn't put it any better. Combine that with it seems most of the hustling complaints come over really superficial and unimportant plays and you have why I think the "husting" debate is a non-issue.

I think the serious concern is that it's something to do with the brain. I'm hoping and praying it's not.

You realize that of the players you mention in this post only one will be a rookie next year, right? Murton, Marshall, Guzman, Hill, Mateo, Marmol & Cedeno will all be second year players next seson. You're right, it's inaccurate to use that term across the board. Change it out with "young player" and I'll still stick by what I said. Either go with a full-on youth movement or play them only when and where you REALLY can instead of the team going out of their way to make room or not even bothering to try and upgrade. If the team falls somewhere in the middle it's not going to do much. The Cubs simply don't have that kind of team right now. It's a waste to hold onto Barrett, Lee and Aramis because while some of the young players seem to be good, very few of them seem to be THAT good. Contrary to what some seem to think, I highly doubt we have a crop of Marlins waiting in the wings.

There are just different mentalities at work here. You'll find a lot of people here that often would rather see a strikeout than someone who continually "puts the ball in play." I'm one of them. It varies from situation to situation and player to player. Same with this "hustle" theory. I don't know if some of you are thinking Im saying players shouldn't try on plays they actually have a slim chance of making. I'm not. I'm simply taking issue with the idea that a player who does something like jog out an obvious groundball out is doing something horribly wrong and is possibly costing his team runs or games by doing so. It strikes me as absurd. I'm also hearing what sounds like people endorsing guys like Burnitz or Jones as being somehow comparable or not toally unfavorable when compared to "lazy" players like Dunn, Aramis and Manny. I'm sorry, I'm not more impressed with a medicore player who legs things out. They're still miles away from the superstar that dogs an obvious out every so often. Running your guts out over easy outs doesn't magically make them better players, or even good. It just makes them average to bad players that get winded and sweaty more often. If I'm playing favortism towards the better players, so be it. Their skills are DEFINITELY winning games left and right. The average players' "hustle" might be doing something just as much as it might not be. The two aren't even comparable.

What do they gain besides making people "feel better?" An extra base? Not making an out? I edited my post above to expand on that. I think "hustle" is so subjective and varies so much from player to player, coach to coach and fan to fan that trying to set some kind of "hustling standard" to even begin to figure out if a player's lack of or having "hustle" significantly helps or hurts a team is next to impossible. Obviously, if there's a shot a player can a make a play, they should leg it out. I take issue with the "hustle critics" who get all agitated when someone trots out an obvious groundball out where they'd be thrown out by a mile and plays along those lines. Are we going to take issue with players who aren't using two hands EVERY time they try to make a catch or go for a grounder?

And please show specifically me where a player's continued "lack of hustle," whatever that is, repeatedly cost his team games or even runs.