bring stone back

What do you mean alter your life? If games 6 and 7 were tough to swallow, then you had some sort of emotional investment in the game. Which means you would have derived some pleasure in seeing them win and going to the World Series. And I don't think I asked you if you were satisfied without seeing a world series. You actually asked me if I've ever gotten any happiness out of the Cubs (which would insinuate that you have). You also accused me of searching for things to complain about, to which I replied you don't have to search to find reasons to complain about their current situation, unless, for some reason, you enjoy the current situation. I like the Cubs. You seem to like the Cubs. I don't even know where this conversation is going.

Well, then why bother? Why bother with what? I have followed the Cubs since I can remember, but them winning or not winning the world series wouldn't change my life or give me a sense of satisfaction. I'd be happy and hope to see it one day, but it does nothing for personal satisfaction. It would be different if I played or worked for the Cubs, but I'm just a fan. See the Red Sox fans for example. They won a couple years ago for the first time forever and they're even more rabid than ever. If they were truly satisfied, the fans would just show up and cheer for anything the Sox do on the field. They don't so obviously the Red Sox title two years didn't satisfy their fans. Enjoying, or getting any satisfaction out of a team's success is completely different from "being satisfied". Enjoyment and satisfaction are temporary feelings. Being satisfied suggests permanence. The players themselves typically don't remain satisfied with winning one. So, you're suggestion that you can't take any satisfaction from a win because you aren't part of the team doesn't jive with the rest of your statement. Hey, if you can passively observe this team without any emotional ties getting involved, more power to you. But then I'd refrain from admonishing those who have taken an emotional stake in the team from expressing disappointment in how they are run. You don't care. Fine. Others do. The original question you asked me is if I was satisfied without seeing a world series title in my lifetime. There's a big difference between satisfaction after one victory and satisfaction after a world series title. I don't feel like getting into this debate with you. You have obviously been posting here for some time so I would imagine you've been a Cubs fan for some time. I respect your passion for the Cubs but I won't let a baseball game alter my life. (I must say games 6 & 7 against the Marlins in the NLCS was a little tough to swallow, however).

Well, then why bother? Why bother with what? I have followed the Cubs since I can remember, but them winning or not winning the world series wouldn't change my life or give me a sense of satisfaction. I'd be happy and hope to see it one day, but it does nothing for personal satisfaction. It would be different if I played or worked for the Cubs, but I'm just a fan. See the Red Sox fans for example. They won a couple years ago for the first time forever and they're even more rabid than ever. If they were truly satisfied, the fans would just show up and cheer for anything the Sox do on the field. They don't so obviously the Red Sox title two years didn't satisfy their fans.

I am actually looking for reasons to be satisfied with what the Cubs are doing, and can't find any. You don't have to look for reasons to complain, unless you're happy with 16-22 and no World Series titles in your lifetime. I'm not happy they're 16-22, but I honestly feel this is the low-point of the season and they will perform much better throughout the year once Lee, Prior, Wood and Miller return. Considering how pathetic they've been the last 15 games or so, for them to be only 6 under .500 at this point is a blessing. The NL Central is very mediocre so I don't think it's crazy to think the Cubs can't make this interesting later in the year. I don't take any personal satisfaction if the Cubs win or don't win the World Series. I hope they do, but it's not like I put real work or energy into them winning and won't take any satisfaction from it. I look at it more as entertainment until college football rolls around....

It's obviously a lot harder than you think. When this story came out in the Chicago media 3 weeks or so ago I believe it was Ozzie who said the White Sox are happy with their guy but wouldn't want to go through it again. I think it was Kenny Williams who added, if we opened this up to an open invite to all of Chicago, I'd guarantee we'd have 1,000 try out for the job and I guarantee we'd have 1,000 fail. Think about it, if you're a guy who pitched in high school or college and you haven't stepped foot on a field and really threw in 10+ years it's not easy to consistently throw a couple hundred belt-high fastballs at 75-80 MPH. If they could, they'd probably still be playing somewhere. I played the game for a while and can't imagine how nervous I'd be pitching to Walker, Lee, Ramirez, etc. It's not that easy.... That's absurd. Any college lefty good enough to be scouted would be acceptable, certainly more acceptable than having no left-handed BP pitcher, and not all these guys are still playing somewhere. Any college lefty worth being scouted has hopes of PLAYING...not throwing BP. As far as your contention that any college lefty worth being scouted can do this, I'll take that bet.

The Cubs are 16-22 right now, and have never been to the World Series in my lifetime. I don't really have to search very far to find reasons to complain. But for the record, yes, they have done things that brought me happiness. Ironically enough, I was pretty happy when Hendry got the job as GM. I liked most of what he did with the minor leagues, and I thought his elevation to the top job would have cut down on all the worthless overpaid washed up veterans that were rotating in and out of the clubhouse year after year. I enjoy every victory, as well as any game I get to attend, since I only get to about 6-7 Cubs games a year on average. I also enjoy snide little remarks like yours about what type of fan I am. I'm glad I can bring you some enjoyment during your day....you're welcome. I must say however, I did not comment on the type of fan you are. I only pointed out that from your postings on this message board, you seem to be very cynical and look for every reason to complain.

It's obviously a lot harder than you think. When this story came out in the Chicago media 3 weeks or so ago I believe it was Ozzie who said the White Sox are happy with their guy but wouldn't want to go through it again. I think it was Kenny Williams who added, if we opened this up to an open invite to all of Chicago, I'd guarantee we'd have 1,000 try out for the job and I guarantee we'd have 1,000 fail. Think about it, if you're a guy who pitched in high school or college and you haven't stepped foot on a field and really threw in 10+ years it's not easy to consistently throw a couple hundred belt-high fastballs at 75-80 MPH. If they could, they'd probably still be playing somewhere. I played the game for a while and can't imagine how nervous I'd be pitching to Walker, Lee, Ramirez, etc. It's not that easy.... And yet this was cited as an excuse for troubles against LHP years ago, not just 3 weeks ago. I don't doubt that....my whole point was it's not as simple as grabbing some guy who throws left-handed out of the stands and say we found the guy to throw BP. On a sidenote, is there anything the Cubs organization does that brings you happiness? Has Hendry/MacPhail ever done anything you agree with? You seem to be quite the upset cynic searching for reasons to complain.

It's obviously a lot harder than you think. When this story came out in the Chicago media 3 weeks or so ago I believe it was Ozzie who said the White Sox are happy with their guy but wouldn't want to go through it again. I think it was Kenny Williams who added, if we opened this up to an open invite to all of Chicago, I'd guarantee we'd have 1,000 try out for the job and I guarantee we'd have 1,000 fail. Think about it, if you're a guy who pitched in high school or college and you haven't stepped foot on a field and really threw in 10+ years it's not easy to consistently throw a couple hundred belt-high fastballs at 75-80 MPH. If they could, they'd probably still be playing somewhere. I played the game for a while and can't imagine how nervous I'd be pitching to Walker, Lee, Ramirez, etc. It's not that easy....

I'm with you....I think that's his problem. I don't think he has the mentality or is good enough to carry a team for an extended time. He is a great secondary option to Lee, but he can't do it alone.

Over 162 games that's an awful lot more. Cubs leadoff spot, 2005: .299 OBP Juan Pierre, 2006: .284 OBP So you're comparing production from 19 games this year to 162 games last year? Chris Shelton must be one of the the best homerun hitters ever. Look out Ruth and Aaron.

i don't buy for one second that pierre's speed has been affected by the weather. sorry. even if i were to buy that cold weather slows down guys to the point that it shaves 60-70 points off their OBP, i'm still not with you because it hasn't been that cold. you're acting like they've played half their games in snow. Did I say they played half of their games in snow? Did I say it shaves 60-70 points off his OBP? No. What I said is that weather does have an impact on a player built for speed....especially one who is from Louisiana and is used to playing in Miami.

I guess I can't quite make the connection. If you go from having no leadoff hitter one year (CPatt, Neifi, whoever else we put there) to even an average leadoff hitter (Pierre) it's going to help you a lot. All of a sudden Walker is batting with a runner on more often so DLee and Ramirez will also. It's unfortunate that Lee got hurt because I had no doubt that his RBI total would have increased by at least 10 this year even if his HR's and BA went down a bit. He would have benefitted from having Pierre leading off. Pierre's OBP is .299 right now, I don't think they're batting with runners on all that much more often than 2005. Over 162 games that's an awful lot more.

that doesn't even make sense. so the 6th hitter in the lineup is going to 'feed off' the 'excitement' pierre brought to the game two innings prior when he grounded out to second? how exactly does this feeding process work? Guys who play for the Cubs seem to disagree with you. Do you think Podsednik brought anything to the Sox last year?

I guess I can't quite make the connection. How many RBI's would Lee and Ramirez have had last year with a mediocre leadoff man? I think you'd agree many more. I think the 2, 3 and 4 hitters we put out there have the ability to do more with Pierre getting on base than he had in Florida. Pierre getting on base will help those guys and their ability to come through with runners on will help Pierre. As I mentioned before, Lee made the analogy before the season that Pierre will have the same impact that Podsednik did for the Sox last year. His energy, speed and ability to get on base provides a spark and catalyst for the rest of the lineup to feed off of.

Could not agree more. Well said. I don't think that opinion will be shared on this board.

If Aramis had a really awful year last year, then yes we'd probably complain that Ramirez sucks. But Ramirez gets the benefit of the doubt. Because of Pierre's season last year, he does not. As much as people keep talking about Pierre's "awful season" last year, I think he scored runs and stole over 50 bases. Considering it was such an awful season for him, I'm excited to see what he can do with Walker, a healthy Lee and Ramirez can do behind him. Walker, Lee, and Ramirez behind him is pretty equal to Castillo, Cabrera, and Delgado behind him. I don't think those 3 behind him will have a significant impact on his numbers. I do....Walker, Lee and Ramirez are better and have not had a true leadoff man (as a group) since they've been here. They'll feed off him and Pierre will play well and put up better numbers because of their success.

in june, juan pierre is going to be so fast that he'll beat out routine groundballs to second twice a game Why are you exaggerating? In 650 AB, the difference between a .280 hitter and a .300 hitter is about 13 hits. Just missing an infield single every couple of games b/c your legs are cold/cramped/tight makes a big difference for a guy like Pierre. The Cubs have played 4 games this year with a temperature below 50 degrees, only 1 below 40. That's over 20% of our games, which isn't a negligible figure. WHO CARES IF IT'S COLD...50 DEGREE WEATHER DOESN'T MAKE YOU SLOW! where are you coming up with this stuff?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Have you ever ran before? Bad weather does have an impact. I'm not using that as an excuse for his slow start, but it does play a role. I think it's the fact the he's still finding his niche with a new team and the season is only 19 games old.

Yeah, and compare me to your average weekend golfer and I look pretty favorable too. Sure, I shot a 92 today, but I'm better than the old guy who can't hit it more than 100 yards, or the lady who's afraid of the ball. Do you or this weekend golfer player you're comparing yourself to play on the PGA tour? If I'm using your analogy, there's no sense comparing a guy ranked #125 in the world playing every tournament to make some cuts and some money to someone ranked in the top 50 with plenty of earnings and sponsor money. Compared to a Tejada or someone, yeah Neifi sucks. Compared to a Graffanino or any other backup infielder, I like him.

i put zero importance in all three of the things that you give neifi credit for. To each his own. I think they're pretty important, but that's fine.

I disagree about both of those. In short, Pierre's season may not have been a fluke and I'm not sold on the "pure speed and energy" aspect. Jones is just bad. This is the point though. People disagree. When people complain about this sort of thing I don't really understand what they want. Should we have 5 page threads commending Barrett for his double? A "Congrats on fielding a groundball correctly" thread? This is a place for discussion, and inevitably disagreements and therefore debate will happen, and happen often. No, but should you have a 10 page thread about how bad someone sucks because of a strike out, passed ball, error, etc? They happen.

If Aramis had a really awful year last year, then yes we'd probably complain that Ramirez sucks. But Ramirez gets the benefit of the doubt. Because of Pierre's season last year, he does not. As much as people keep talking about Pierre's "awful season" last year, I think he scored runs and stole over 50 bases. Considering it was such an awful season for him, I'm excited to see what he can do with Walker, a healthy Lee and Ramirez can do behind him.

Simple solution...be optimistic with the early start and the players coming back and quit bitching so damn much. Pretty easy. OK, so be optimistic now and then act shocked when the Cubs' lack of health and ability to get on base catches up with them, and they finish around .500? Inability to get on base? That's amazing...you can make such a bold prediction on the outcome of the entire year after 19 games. No, don't be shocked if they finish .500....just blame it all on Dusty, Neifi and Hendry.

I disagree about both of those. In short, Pierre's season may not have been a fluke and I'm not sold on the "pure speed and energy" aspect. Jones is just bad. This is the point though. People disagree. When people complain about this sort of thing I don't really understand what they want. Should we have 5 page threads commending Barrett for his double? A "Congrats on fielding a groundball correctly thread"? This is a place for discussion, and inevitably disagreements and therefore debate will happen, and happen often. Pierre isn't fast and doesn't bring energy to the team? If I recall at the beginning of the year a player made the analogy of bringing Pierre is like Podsednik to the Sox...he brings energy and excitement to the top of the lineup and the rest of the lineup can't help but feed off of that. Jones being a good outfield and power hitter from the left side alone put him above the "bad" level. He's a productive outfielder with some drawbacks, but he's not "bad."

Simple solution...be optimistic with the early start and the players coming back and quit bitching so damn much. Pretty easy.

This off-season wasnt exactly the best free agent market you'll ever see. Even with Jeromy Burnitz, we'd get the same production. Our only option was to trade, and I am deeply disappointed of what Hendry, the best trade manager, got out of the Patterson trade. So posters complain about Patterson being worthless garbage and are disappointed when Hendry can't get something of value for that garbage?